May 15, 2024

SURRENDERING DOROTHY: Munchkins, Mysteries & Myths of “The Wizard of Oz”

SURRENDERING DOROTHY: Munchkins, Mysteries & Myths of “The Wizard of Oz”
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Going Hollywood
SURRENDERING DOROTHY: Munchkins, Mysteries & Myths of “The Wizard of Oz”
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Season 1

S01 E06 Don your ruby slippers as we pay tribute to "The Wizard of Oz."  Join Brad and Tony for an exploration that celebrates the quirks, confronts the myths, and cherishes the enduring charm of the iconic film. 

Text us your opinion or comment

You can find transcripts, a link to Tony's website, and a link to Brad's website at www.goinghollywoodpodcast.com

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Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:25.481 --> 00:00:27.989
Hello, I'm film historian Tony Mae.

00:00:28.701 --> 00:00:31.410
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:34.969
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age.

00:00:34.969 --> 00:00:37.649
We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

00:00:38.619 --> 00:00:42.131
And, of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

00:00:43.822 --> 00:00:44.966
As does your self-delusion.

00:00:44.966 --> 00:00:49.561
Welcome to Going Hollywood, Brad.

00:00:49.561 --> 00:00:51.469
I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:57.368
Tony, it sounds like you're trying to give an idea of what we're going to discuss today, but I'm not sure where you're going with this.

00:00:57.859 --> 00:00:58.905
That's such a lame hint.

00:00:58.905 --> 00:01:00.506
We're talking about the Wizard of Oz.

00:01:00.506 --> 00:01:02.125
Of course we are.

00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.149
You could have said I'll get you my pretty and your little dog too.

00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:12.662
Oh, I could have said a bunch of lines, but I think the reason we're talking about this is because, first of all, there's so many things to say about the Wizard of Oz.

00:01:12.662 --> 00:01:15.728
I don't think that this is going to be our only episode.

00:01:15.728 --> 00:01:21.346
I think because there's so many things to say, but basically because I don't have the bandwidth for anything else right now.

00:01:21.346 --> 00:01:39.100
Anything else right now I am filming a documentary on Vincent Minnelli and so I'm so deeply immersed in the world of Vincent Minnelli I was like this is kind of tangential to that with Judy Garland, so I can handle a Wizard of Oz episode.

00:01:39.100 --> 00:01:39.801
I guess we'll see.

00:01:41.121 --> 00:01:43.582
I doubt you were spending much time researching this one.

00:01:44.162 --> 00:01:44.983
No, I did Well.

00:01:44.983 --> 00:01:48.185
Yeah, it's kind of in my DNA, like it is with so many gay men.

00:01:48.185 --> 00:01:50.585
I mean, who doesn't have the Wizard of Oz in their DNA?

00:01:50.585 --> 00:01:51.585
Who's a gay man.

00:01:52.165 --> 00:01:56.048
This is the point where I normally say Tony, why don't you describe what this movie is about?

00:01:56.048 --> 00:01:58.629
But I kind of think everyone knows this one.

00:01:59.569 --> 00:02:01.109
Yeah, I kind of think it.

00:02:01.109 --> 00:02:02.069
I mean really.

00:02:02.069 --> 00:02:03.891
I mean really, I mean there are.

00:02:03.891 --> 00:02:04.691
You know what I want to say too.

00:02:04.691 --> 00:02:07.953
There are entire podcasts just about the Wizard of Oz.

00:02:07.953 --> 00:02:11.914
So I think that you know the fact that we're doing one episode on it.

00:02:11.914 --> 00:02:15.635
There's another reason like you know, you can't cover all of it in one episode.

00:02:15.635 --> 00:02:17.317
We're going to do our best.

00:02:18.197 --> 00:02:21.758
Yes, but I do have a description that floats around the internet that I can share.

00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:23.381
Oh cool.

00:02:23.723 --> 00:02:25.210
Transported to a surreal land.

00:02:25.210 --> 00:02:33.211
A young girl kills the first person she meets and then teams with three strangers and kills again.

00:02:33.211 --> 00:02:37.586
That's the story in a nutshell.

00:02:39.604 --> 00:02:40.252
I love that.

00:02:40.252 --> 00:02:45.872
That is the best description.

00:02:45.872 --> 00:02:49.007
You know, you could just do that with all movies and just get.

00:02:49.007 --> 00:02:50.170
That's a great description.

00:02:50.170 --> 00:02:51.402
That is a great description.

00:02:51.402 --> 00:02:52.467
I mean, that's what this is about.

00:02:52.467 --> 00:02:54.885
It's not in Cold Blood, it's the Wizard of Oz.

00:02:54.885 --> 00:02:57.965
She kills and kills again.

00:02:57.965 --> 00:03:00.031
Yeah, that's amazing.

00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:03.469
You know, for the first time, I found this movie really disturbing.

00:03:03.469 --> 00:03:05.448
I mean, it's grotesque.

00:03:05.448 --> 00:03:07.085
They're dancing and singing Ding Dong.

00:03:07.085 --> 00:03:08.068
The witch is dead.

00:03:08.068 --> 00:03:08.409
Well yeah.

00:03:08.409 --> 00:03:09.723
And then the rest of the movie.

00:03:09.723 --> 00:03:12.290
Her quest is to kill the witch.

00:03:12.979 --> 00:03:22.112
I think that's something that you come to when you see it as an adult, after having grown up with as a child, is you realize how gruesome it can be and how it certainly is dark.

00:03:22.112 --> 00:03:26.520
But, yeah, you realize.

00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:26.861
Oh, oh, my gosh.

00:03:26.861 --> 00:03:27.704
No wonder this terrifies children.

00:03:27.704 --> 00:03:29.687
I mean, the wicked witch is truly a terrifying character.

00:03:29.687 --> 00:03:44.687
You know what I mean, and so it's, I think you come to at least I came to it as an adult the first time whenever I saw it as an adult and you kind of realize, or maybe, as you, as you learn more and more about it, you realize wow, this is some violence here is happening you know,

00:03:52.979 --> 00:03:55.209
He was like this is just like Grimm's fairy tales.

00:03:55.209 --> 00:04:03.687
For example, you had the lumberjack, who the witch put a spell on, so he starts chopping off his limbs and that's how you got the tin man.

00:04:04.540 --> 00:04:05.804
Start cutting off his limbs.

00:04:05.804 --> 00:04:08.311
I know right, I mean that's kind of crazy.

00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:13.173
Equally disturbing is when Dorothy gets the scarecrow off the post.

00:04:13.173 --> 00:04:24.166
He then, to get revenge, starts breaking the necks of the crows that have been bothering him, and it says that when he was done, he's standing in feathers and pools of blood.

00:04:24.827 --> 00:04:31.769
So I guess it's safe to say that MGM sanitized it a bit, to say the least, to say the least for 1939.

00:04:31.769 --> 00:04:36.252
To fit the production code requirements they could only have so many things.

00:04:36.252 --> 00:04:38.005
You know I love the Oz books.

00:04:38.005 --> 00:04:39.607
I read them all as a child.

00:04:40.379 --> 00:04:53.216
The thing that I think is so genius about this film, this film of the Wizard of Oz, is how the screenwriters and there were a slew of screenwriters on this film how they made it so logical.

00:04:53.216 --> 00:05:04.536
Having the introduction and having the characters already implanted in Dorothy's head and then to see them manifested in their Oz characterizations I think is so genius.

00:05:04.536 --> 00:05:10.482
They had to make it a dream In the books, and I don't know if I'm telling anybody this that they don't already know if they're listening to this podcast.

00:05:10.482 --> 00:05:11.887
In the books it's not a dream.

00:05:11.887 --> 00:05:19.545
In the books Oz is a real place and she goes there in the cyclone, yes, but in the movie obviously it's a dream.

00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:38.752
And another genius idea because at this time in Hollywood in the late 30s, there was a very, very, not bad, but they did the production of Alice in Wonderland at Paramount, which bombed and then, right on the heels of that Snow White the year before, was a huge, huge hit.

00:05:38.752 --> 00:05:55.392
So they wanted to find a way to make sure this film was palatable to audiences who wouldn't necessarily believe the fantasy, and so they made it a dream, and I think that's just one of the many brilliant changes they made to the story which make it work so well.

00:05:56.440 --> 00:05:57.545
Yeah, I was really surprised.

00:05:57.545 --> 00:06:04.312
In the final book Dorothy's actually in her 30s and Auntie Em and Uncle Henry are living on a farm in Oz.

00:06:05.194 --> 00:06:05.555
In Oz.

00:06:05.555 --> 00:06:07.869
They all end up moving to Oz eventually, which I don't blame them.

00:06:07.869 --> 00:06:10.148
Yeah, their farm went bankrupt, so they moved to Oz.

00:06:10.148 --> 00:06:13.591
Depending on what happens with the next election, I think I might want to move to Oz.

00:06:13.660 --> 00:06:15.505
Oh, I am with you there more than you can even know.

00:06:15.987 --> 00:06:17.290
You know I mean my God.

00:06:17.290 --> 00:06:18.802
But I think that that's amazing.

00:06:18.802 --> 00:06:24.750
I might even read some of these Oz books again, because there's all kinds of characters that come in as the story.

00:06:24.750 --> 00:06:36.442
You know, ozma comes in and there's a Jack Pumpkinhead and all these lands in Oz and it's just fascinating.

00:06:36.442 --> 00:06:38.810
It's kind of like a Tales of Narnia for you know the early 20th century.

00:06:38.810 --> 00:06:39.110
I love it.

00:06:39.110 --> 00:06:47.524
But I think what MGM did was brilliant, was genius with it First of all making it a musical and also making it in the frame reference, in the reference of a dream.

00:06:47.524 --> 00:06:49.591
How did you come upon the Wizard of Oz?

00:06:49.591 --> 00:06:52.165
What's your first recollection of watching it?

00:06:52.627 --> 00:06:53.709
It was back before cable.

00:06:53.709 --> 00:07:06.968
So we waited for the one time a year that the Wizard of Oz was on and the one time a year that the Ten Commandments were on, and then you had to wait all year for the Charlie Brown Christmas to show one time, the Grinch to show one time.

00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:08.725
It made it so special, didn't it?

00:07:09.307 --> 00:07:13.410
Yes, they were once-a-year specials and they were big events.

00:07:13.410 --> 00:07:14.543
You waited all year for them.

00:07:15.526 --> 00:07:15.988
It was amazing.

00:07:15.988 --> 00:07:22.221
I remember, for some reason I'm having a recollection of the Wizard of Oz being around Easter, not Christmas.

00:07:22.221 --> 00:07:33.651
I think when they first started airing it in 59 on television it was Christmas time, but I have a recollection of it being and I you know this is from the late 70s of it being around Easter.

00:07:33.651 --> 00:07:37.769
So I like that because it meant summer was coming when the Wizard of Oz was on.

00:07:37.970 --> 00:07:38.632
I don't remember.

00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:40.079
But the Wizard of Oz was an event.

00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:41.983
I feel badly for kids.

00:07:41.983 --> 00:07:52.637
I feel bad for kids today who, I mean, they can watch it anytime they wanted to, and there was something really wonderful about waiting and it was that yearly event that every I know everyone talks about this.

00:07:52.637 --> 00:07:57.307
Everybody got in front of the TV and watched it and it was something to look forward to.

00:07:57.620 --> 00:08:00.870
Just like they don't know what they're missing not having Saturday morning cartoons.

00:08:00.870 --> 00:08:04.326
Yeah, it was the one time a week that it was the big event.

00:08:04.968 --> 00:08:06.312
Oh, I know right oh.

00:08:11.463 --> 00:08:13.211
Now you can just turn on the Cartoon Network anytime you want and watch them.

00:08:13.211 --> 00:08:14.817
And it's actually a negative because it's just not the same.

00:08:14.838 --> 00:08:15.439
It's not the same.

00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:18.423
It's not the same to have it at your disposal 24-7.

00:08:18.504 --> 00:08:18.985
Not at all.

00:08:19.144 --> 00:08:19.985
I mean I love it.

00:08:19.985 --> 00:08:27.615
I just put it on a couple days ago and watched it and that's great, but I went through that whole ritual of it every year being so special.

00:08:27.615 --> 00:08:28.696
It's still special.

00:08:28.696 --> 00:08:31.649
It's still a phenomenal film.

00:08:31.649 --> 00:08:35.951
I mean just the technological aspects of it are phenomenal.

00:08:35.951 --> 00:08:39.269
There's no CGI here.

00:08:39.269 --> 00:08:46.322
I mean that cyclone is muslin, everything in the matte paintings and the dissolve, everything on that was figured out.

00:08:46.322 --> 00:08:50.711
Someone in their head figured out how to do it live.

00:08:51.793 --> 00:08:52.494
And it works.

00:08:52.494 --> 00:08:54.144
People don't have to wear makeup nowadays.

00:08:54.144 --> 00:08:57.192
They just wait till they're done filming and change it via CGI.

00:08:57.519 --> 00:08:58.903
Right, exactly, exactly.

00:08:58.903 --> 00:09:01.428
It's fascinating, fascinating.

00:09:01.428 --> 00:09:05.407
So you remember seeing it on TV and what were your initials?

00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:08.086
They were much better than when I just watched it last week.

00:09:08.849 --> 00:09:09.169
Really.

00:09:09.610 --> 00:09:09.850
Yes.

00:09:10.341 --> 00:09:11.726
I think we're going to have to talk about that.

00:09:12.780 --> 00:09:17.302
I was kind of let down because I really loved this as a kid and I didn't this time, and we'll see.

00:09:17.302 --> 00:09:22.664
As far as the flying monkeys go, I was never afraid of them growing up, but watching them now they are horrific.

00:09:22.664 --> 00:09:25.448
I can understand why the kids had nightmares.

00:09:26.210 --> 00:09:27.711
Yeah, I know they're pretty terrifying.

00:09:28.332 --> 00:09:29.434
Terrifying, to say the least.

00:09:34.820 --> 00:09:39.379
That's so funny because I think one of Judy's children talks about the first time they saw the Wizard of Oz on TV and they were freaking out because Mommy was being taken away by monkeys.

00:09:39.379 --> 00:09:41.621
She's like I'm right here, darling, I'm right here.

00:09:41.662 --> 00:09:45.705
Yeah, they saw Mommy being flown away screaming help, help, yeah yeah, exactly.

00:09:45.705 --> 00:09:46.907
It must have been terrible.

00:09:46.927 --> 00:09:48.307
They're like flying rodents.

00:09:48.307 --> 00:09:49.668
I mean, that would freak me out.

00:09:50.549 --> 00:09:52.591
Tony, I'm stopping our conversation real quick.

00:09:52.751 --> 00:09:55.673
Why we're in the middle of a podcast.

00:09:56.115 --> 00:09:58.596
But this is about the podcast and it's very important.

00:09:59.039 --> 00:09:59.360
Okay.

00:09:59.822 --> 00:10:00.182
Listener.

00:10:00.182 --> 00:10:05.994
Whatever app you're listening on, whether it's on the computer or on the phone, reach your finger or your mouse over.

00:10:05.994 --> 00:10:07.667
It usually says follow.

00:10:07.667 --> 00:10:10.187
Some still say subscribe and click that.

00:10:10.187 --> 00:10:12.267
And what's going to happen when they do that, tony?

00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:17.533
They're going to get notified when a new episode is available and they can listen to us again.

00:10:17.533 --> 00:10:19.205
You know you don't want to miss that.

00:10:19.485 --> 00:10:19.647
No.

00:10:19.940 --> 00:10:22.005
Can we get back to the episode that we were recording?

00:10:22.005 --> 00:10:22.667
Of course, please.

00:10:22.667 --> 00:10:23.809
Can we get back to the episode that we were recording?

00:10:23.809 --> 00:10:24.432
Of course, please, of course.

00:10:24.432 --> 00:10:24.893
All right, thank you.

00:10:24.893 --> 00:10:29.061
Don't forget to subscribe and follow

00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:31.883
Let's talk about the reception the Wizard of Oz got.

00:10:31.883 --> 00:10:39.145
It was nominated for Best Picture in 1939, and 1939 was a huge year for movies.

00:10:39.166 --> 00:10:41.748
Yeah, 1939 was the year.

00:10:42.707 --> 00:10:44.408
Yeah, of course we had Gone with the Wind.

00:10:44.408 --> 00:10:46.210
Mr Smith Goes to Washington.

00:10:46.210 --> 00:10:50.392
There was Stagecoach, which is the one John Wayne movie that I can think of.

00:10:50.392 --> 00:10:55.394
That I liked Love Affair, which people know from Sleeping Seattle, isn't it?

00:10:56.235 --> 00:10:58.416
Yeah, yes, yes, sleepless in Seattle.

00:10:58.416 --> 00:11:00.216
Yeah, I mean, there's a big one in there.

00:11:00.216 --> 00:11:01.618
You forgot, did you say Gone with the Wind?

00:11:01.898 --> 00:11:08.451
Yes, Did you say gone with the wind?

00:11:08.451 --> 00:11:08.513
Yes, did you say?

00:11:08.513 --> 00:11:08.479
Oh, you did.

00:11:08.479 --> 00:11:08.956
Okay, I missed it, missed.

00:11:08.956 --> 00:11:09.852
Gone with the wind was the big winner that year.

00:11:09.852 --> 00:11:13.927
It's the one that won, and it wasn't called best picture, then it was called outstanding production and it also did not go to the producers and went to the studio right.

00:11:13.927 --> 00:11:17.111
So selznick won, which I believe is well deserved.

00:11:19.623 --> 00:11:22.808
well, just the scale of it and selznick pretty much had that in the bag.

00:11:22.808 --> 00:11:35.232
I mean, the scale of that film is just astounding, even when you think about this and this is also true with the Wizard of Oz movies had only learned to talk 10 years before, .

00:11:35.232 --> 00:11:43.703
So the fact that they not only had sound but they had glorious technicolor Technicolor was also something that was very rare in 1939.

00:11:43.703 --> 00:11:45.129
I think there were only like four technicolor technicolor was also something that was very rare in 1939.

00:11:45.129 --> 00:11:47.267
I think there were only like four technicolor cameras.

00:11:47.267 --> 00:11:56.897
Um, they were behemoths, they're huge, and at that time they thought you needed massive lighting in order for technicolor to register.

00:11:56.897 --> 00:12:05.846
So that's why whenever you see candid shots behind the scenes of wizard of oz and you can see the sets, the lights are just it's like the center, you know, it's like the, like the sun, it's so bright.

00:12:05.946 --> 00:12:08.110
So these actors were in these huge costumes.

00:12:08.110 --> 00:12:15.293
You know Burt Lahr was in this huge Cowardly Lion thing that must have weighed 40, 50, 60 pounds and sweating profusely.

00:12:15.293 --> 00:12:23.849
And I think Jack Haley said Jack Haley played the Tin man in an interview in the 70s, said people always come up to him and ask him wasn't that wonderful, wasn't it fun to make that movie?

00:12:23.849 --> 00:12:29.014
And he's like no, it wasn't fun, it was hell, it was work, it was terrible.

00:12:38.312 --> 00:12:40.539
I heard nobody remembers that film fondly because it was so difficult.

00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:41.903
Yeah, except for the hardships.

00:12:41.903 --> 00:12:43.147
Oh, I think they remembered it fondly.

00:12:43.147 --> 00:12:46.663
I mean, ray Bolger certainly remembered it fondly and Judy did.

00:12:46.663 --> 00:12:47.908
How could she not?

00:12:47.908 --> 00:12:54.863
I mean, I think this is a good point to talk about some of the myths about the Wizard of Oz which everybody kind of knows.

00:12:54.863 --> 00:12:57.085
But they think they know the reality of it.

00:12:57.085 --> 00:13:03.423
And just to be clear, shirley Temple was never seriously considered to play Dorothy.

00:13:03.825 --> 00:13:06.272
And I see it all over the place that she was

00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:19.648
For a minute she was, but this movie was conceived by Mervyn LeRoy, who was the producer, and Arthur Freed, who was his associate producer uncredited.

00:13:19.648 --> 00:13:27.163
Arthur Freed is basically responsible for the great MGM musical period, but he was not the producer on this, he was the.

00:13:27.163 --> 00:13:29.509
He was, uh, mervyn Leroy's associate.

00:13:29.509 --> 00:13:36.780
Mervyn Leroy was brought in from Warner brothers as kind of like a replacement for Irving Thalberg, who had passed away a few years before.

00:13:36.780 --> 00:13:40.346
And if I'm getting too deeply into the weeds on this, well, that's this podcast.

00:13:42.210 --> 00:13:43.952
Mervyn Leroy and Arthur Freed.

00:13:43.952 --> 00:13:48.866
Arthur Freed had been a fan of Judy's since she was signed to the studio in 35.

00:13:48.866 --> 00:13:52.354
And he wanted this project for her.

00:13:52.354 --> 00:14:05.113
Now, when they got to the budget and they saw how much this was going to cost, for a minute they thought maybe we should have a big star and Shirley Temple was the biggest box office star in the world at that time.

00:14:05.113 --> 00:14:10.331
So they did go to her and she sang for them and they went and that's not going to happen.

00:14:10.331 --> 00:14:13.807
There's no way this child can handle the score.

00:14:13.807 --> 00:14:15.331
So it went right back to Judy.

00:14:15.331 --> 00:14:19.451
But that's always been kind of blown out of proportion, the whole Shirley Temple angle.

00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.929
Age-wise Shirley Temple is more accurate to the book, because the book does say she was a child.

00:14:25.171 --> 00:14:25.431
The book.

00:14:25.431 --> 00:14:27.345
Yes, she's a child If you look at the illustrations in the book.

00:14:27.345 --> 00:14:29.506
She's a little child In every other respect.

00:14:29.506 --> 00:14:46.490
Judy Garland was so perfect for this role because she had the sincerity, she had the vulnerability, she had the pathos you need someone to identify with and to feel for and that's Judy Garland to a T at this time, throughout her career actually.

00:14:46.490 --> 00:14:47.393
But we're not going to go that.

00:14:47.393 --> 00:14:53.648
But I mean, and she was so perfect for it because you feel for Dorothy, your heart breaks for Dorothy.

00:14:53.700 --> 00:15:07.544
There's a wonderful outtake that's available of there was to be a reprise of Over the Rainbow that Dorothy sings in when she's trapped in the witch's castle right before the witch goes Annie, annie.

00:15:07.544 --> 00:15:11.642
I remember she's seeing Annie M in the crystal ball and then it turns into the witch Right before she's at.

00:15:11.642 --> 00:15:20.812
She was supposed to sing a reprise of Over the Rainbow, which is heartbreaking, and they took it out because it was so heartbreaking and so terrifying.

00:15:20.812 --> 00:15:25.690
They didn't want to have the original Over the Rainbow in it, so they weren't going to have a reprise of it.

00:15:25.690 --> 00:15:32.547
But I mean, she had such, she had such sympathy and such audience goodwill and she's just so wonderful in this film.

00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:35.322
She did a great job and I will grant you that.

00:15:35.322 --> 00:15:40.384
But you know, they did have to tape her breasts down and we kind of had a laugh a minute.

00:15:40.384 --> 00:15:48.042
And then I thought well, you know what, If Stockard Channing can get away with playing a teenager on Grease, I can accept Judy as a little girl, Isn't that true?

00:15:52.066 --> 00:15:56.115
Well, how about when they did the Wiz and they made Dorothy in her early 20s?

00:15:56.115 --> 00:15:59.832
Because it was Diana Ross In the Wiz, dorothy's a child?

00:15:59.832 --> 00:16:07.759
Stephanie Mills was a short person and you could believe she was a young, but they had to age her up for the Wiz.

00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:16.440
I'm glad they didn't do that with the Wizard of Oz, because Dorothy makes a perfectly believable young girl of indeterminate age at that point.

00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:18.062
Young girl of indeterminate age at that point.

00:16:18.062 --> 00:16:32.072
But you know the stories about how, when they first started filming it under Richard Thorpe, who was the original director, how they had her in the blonde wig and they had her made up to look a little bit more like a Kewpie doll and she was kind of acting it that way too.

00:16:32.072 --> 00:16:32.955
She was acting it.

00:16:32.955 --> 00:16:34.125
It was very artificial.

00:16:34.125 --> 00:16:38.951
The original shots, whenever you see them, this was when Buddy Ebsen was still in the film.

00:16:39.653 --> 00:16:40.596
The original Tin man.

00:16:41.004 --> 00:16:41.506
The Tin man.

00:16:41.506 --> 00:16:45.177
Buddy Eben was originally the Tin man and what happened was they did about?

00:16:45.177 --> 00:16:49.976
They did a few weeks of filming under director Richard Thorpe and then Buddy Epson.

00:16:49.976 --> 00:16:55.004
He was wearing aluminum, not aluminum paste, because that's what they replaced it with.

00:16:55.004 --> 00:17:05.757
He had aluminum dust, his makeup was aluminum dust and he was slowly breathing it into his lungs until it coated his lungs and he said you know what it's like when you go to take a breath and nothing happens.

00:17:05.757 --> 00:17:06.750
He says that's what it was.

00:17:06.750 --> 00:17:12.534
So he had to leave the picture of the poor guy and it was in an iron lung for weeks.

00:17:21.325 --> 00:17:23.952
And they took this opportunity, when they had to shut down production, to look at the footage and realize this is totally wrong.

00:17:23.952 --> 00:17:36.765
So richard thorpe was taken off the film and george CuKor, who was about to begin, gone with the wind but had a few weeks to spare before starting, gone with the wind, came on and he's the one who took the wig off of judy garland, who told her to you know, stop the cutesy pie, acting to act like the young girl.

00:17:36.765 --> 00:17:39.290
She was to be sincere and he made some.

00:17:39.290 --> 00:17:51.199
Really, they changed the shape of the yellow bricks in the Yellow Brick Road because they looked like they were a patio and they made actual yellow bricks that look like a Yellow Brick Road.

00:17:51.219 --> 00:17:57.076
George Cukor is one of my favorite directors and he has a lot to his credit in Hollywood history.

00:17:57.076 --> 00:18:04.996
But one of the biggest things is taking that wig off of Judy Garland and telling her to act like the young girl she is, and we have him to thank for it.

00:18:04.996 --> 00:18:10.354
And then he was pulled off and Victor Fleming finished and Victor Fleming was put on Gone with the Wind.

00:18:10.354 --> 00:18:13.248
So it's a whole convoluted thing, but I always think that's fascinating.

00:18:13.448 --> 00:18:16.375
Yeah, I didn't know it until just recently that Victor Fleming directed.

00:18:16.394 --> 00:18:17.337
Gone with the Wind, yeah.

00:18:17.486 --> 00:18:21.051
And just imagine being up for Best Picture for two films at the same time.

00:18:21.605 --> 00:18:23.673
Victor Fleming had a great career.

00:18:23.673 --> 00:18:25.191
I mean he did Red Dust.

00:18:25.191 --> 00:18:26.832
He was a good friend of Clark Gable.

00:18:26.832 --> 00:18:28.651
He had quite an illustrious career.

00:18:28.651 --> 00:18:30.291
He started in silent film as an actor.

00:18:30.291 --> 00:18:31.890
But how about that?

00:18:31.890 --> 00:18:41.152
You have the two most mythic films in Hollywood history you have directed, and not the entire thing.

00:18:41.152 --> 00:18:41.653
That's the thing.

00:18:41.653 --> 00:18:43.861
Wizard of Oz had five directors come in.

00:18:43.861 --> 00:18:58.872
Victor Fleming did the majority of it and then when Victor Fleming went to go to Gone with the Wind, king Vidor, who was a great director in the silent era, finished it and King Vidor actually directed all of the Kansas scenes, including over the rainbow.

00:18:58.872 --> 00:19:06.391
So Victor Fleming did the Oz, mostly the Oz scenes, and then he was pulled to do gone with the wind Once George Cukor was kicked off.

00:19:06.391 --> 00:19:07.013
Gone with the wind.

00:19:07.013 --> 00:19:14.557
So it's all very interesting, all the machinations behind the scenes on whom, five directors to make this one film.

00:19:17.548 --> 00:19:20.962
And I'm really sad for the people in Kansas to have to live in sepia tone.

00:19:22.065 --> 00:19:25.432
Well, yeah, I mean, I always think of that whenever I'm in Kansas.

00:19:25.432 --> 00:19:30.534
I think of that, I think, wow, it's not that gray here, but it's pretty gray.

00:19:31.125 --> 00:19:35.931
I lived in Omaha for a while and because of this movie I had to take a day trip down to Kansas just to check it out.

00:19:36.933 --> 00:19:48.328
Yeah, it's not sepia, but you know it's interesting because L Frank Baum in the beginning of the book discusses how everything is gray in Dorothy's life.

00:19:48.328 --> 00:19:55.799
And EY Harburg and Harold Arlen, who wrote the songs for the Wizard of Oz, thought, well, this girl lives in a colorless world.

00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.328
What is the one thing that she might see that has color?

00:19:59.328 --> 00:20:00.872
And they thought a rainbow.

00:20:00.872 --> 00:20:04.459
And ta-da over, the rainbow was born.

00:20:04.459 --> 00:20:17.713
So it's really kind of interesting when you think about that and that's the whole of how the film goes from sepia to color when she's in Oz and then back into sepia, and that's another technical feat.

00:20:17.713 --> 00:20:19.450
When you think about that.

00:20:19.450 --> 00:20:30.590
I mean again, movies had just learned to talk about a decade before, so now they're doing movies in which it goes from black and white to color and when you see how it happens it's really fascinating.

00:20:31.011 --> 00:20:34.327
There's no tricks, it's just you know they had the technicolor camera.

00:20:34.327 --> 00:20:53.098
The only trick shot is of dorothy opening the door to walk into the to the set, and what they did was they actually painted that door black and white and then they put doris judy garland stand in in a black and white jumper and shot her from the back.

00:20:53.098 --> 00:21:04.497
So she's actually the one who opens the door and the camera moves in and she hands the dog to Judy Garland and Judy Garland, who's in her blue gingham dress, steps into the camera and steps into Oz.

00:21:04.497 --> 00:21:14.987
So it's genius, Genius, you know, Way of thinking that today they'd have to CGI this and they'd have to do this, and that no, MGM's like paint a set black and white, have the stand and come in.

00:21:14.987 --> 00:21:18.087
Judy substitutes Done Moving on.

00:21:18.468 --> 00:21:20.489
That was really smart, it is so.

00:21:20.489 --> 00:21:22.269
Over the Rainbow was not a thing in the book.

00:21:22.269 --> 00:21:24.050
She just happened to land in Oz.

00:21:24.632 --> 00:21:29.993
There were no rainbows and to my recollection it's been a while since I've read the Wonderful Wizard of Oz.

00:21:29.993 --> 00:21:34.017
But to my recollection I don't think Dorothy ever said I want to go over the rainbow.

00:21:34.017 --> 00:21:36.938
That was purely a filmmaker's conceit.

00:21:37.397 --> 00:21:39.298
I cannot picture this movie without that song.

00:21:39.298 --> 00:21:40.680
This song is one of my favorites.

00:21:41.140 --> 00:21:45.082
Yeah, well, we talked about this a little bit, you know before about how they wanted to cut it.

00:21:45.082 --> 00:21:51.817
When we talked about Breakfast at Tiffany's yes, it's astounding to me that anything decent gets made in Hollywood with these studio executives.

00:21:51.817 --> 00:21:53.667
I just have no clue.

00:21:53.667 --> 00:21:57.957
Tell me your version of why they wanted to cut it, because you were funny when you talked about that before.

00:21:58.336 --> 00:22:02.142
You set me straight, but I always heard they didn't want one of their top stars singing in a barnyard.

00:22:02.666 --> 00:22:03.510
That's a fun story.

00:22:04.165 --> 00:22:07.613
Now that I think about it, that's kind of stupid, because they did that all the time in movies.

00:22:08.184 --> 00:22:11.635
Somebody was horrified that an MGM star would be singing in a barnyard.

00:22:11.635 --> 00:22:23.769
So it's kind of funny when you think of it that way, though you know the reason was.

00:22:23.769 --> 00:22:25.355
They felt, for whatever reason, that over the rainbow slowed down the picture.

00:22:25.355 --> 00:22:26.337
Now I don't know how it slows down the picture.

00:22:26.337 --> 00:22:31.071
The picture has just started and it's only like 15 minutes in, if that, to sing over the rainbow, and it's also very important because it's her.

00:22:31.553 --> 00:22:36.567
You know, in musical theater there's a, there's the, there's the conceit of a wanting song.

00:22:36.567 --> 00:22:43.394
The heroine or hero sings a song at the top of the show to express their desires.

00:22:43.394 --> 00:22:46.037
This is Dorothy's wanting song.

00:22:46.037 --> 00:22:51.422
This is what she's presenting us with her dilemma, with her dreams.

00:22:51.422 --> 00:22:54.029
How are you going to cut that out?

00:22:54.029 --> 00:22:55.818
I mean, it's just insane, and thank God they didn't.

00:22:55.818 --> 00:22:56.877
According to Judy Garland, they wanted to cut that out.

00:22:56.877 --> 00:22:57.195
I mean it's just insane and thank God they didn't.

00:22:57.195 --> 00:22:57.605
They were going to cut it.

00:22:57.605 --> 00:23:00.500
According to Judy Garland, they wanted to cut it out in Pomona.

00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:07.231
There was a screening in Pomona and they wanted to cut it out in Pomona, but you know, saner heads prevailed.

00:23:07.231 --> 00:23:08.777
Thank God it did.

00:23:08.777 --> 00:23:16.477
I don't put a lot of stock on AFI, but wasn't it like number one on the AFI songs from movies list, when they do all those lists all the time.

00:23:16.757 --> 00:23:17.578
That I don't know.

00:23:18.159 --> 00:23:18.579
I think so.

00:23:18.579 --> 00:23:21.933
I think it won the number one movie song, which makes sense.

00:23:21.933 --> 00:23:24.890
I mean, come on, you know it's better than you know what else.

00:23:24.890 --> 00:23:26.114
Three Coins in a Fountain?

00:23:26.114 --> 00:23:26.756
I don't think so.

00:23:26.756 --> 00:23:28.604
You think of the Wizard of Oz.

00:23:28.604 --> 00:23:30.747
I really think you think of Over the Rainbow.

00:23:30.747 --> 00:23:31.928
Oh yeah, I, oh yeah.

00:23:31.928 --> 00:23:32.368
How could you not?

00:23:32.368 --> 00:23:36.333
You know, it's incredible how it happened.

00:23:36.633 --> 00:23:38.595
It won Best Song and Best Original Score.

00:23:39.134 --> 00:23:44.681
Yes, and Judy Garland won a special juvenile Oscar for Outstanding Juvenile Performance of the Year.

00:23:44.681 --> 00:23:50.414
It was a special award they didn't give out a lot, obviously, because there aren't that many juvenile actors in Hollywood.

00:23:50.414 --> 00:23:59.112
She won Mickey Rooney had won the year before and then I think the next one was received by Margaret O'Brien from Meet Me in St Louis.

00:23:59.112 --> 00:24:05.759
So Judy got a special Oscar and thank God she did, because it's the only Oscar she ever got, which is a tragedy and travesty.

00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:07.560
But that's another podcast.

00:24:09.244 --> 00:24:15.508
Well, let's get to another rumor, the munchkin that hung himself,

00:24:15.567 --> 00:24:17.990
I know I don't know where that got started.

00:24:17.990 --> 00:24:18.932
It's just crazy.

00:24:19.992 --> 00:24:24.156
Listener, if you watch the film, it's when they're in the apple trees and you can see it in the background.

00:24:24.156 --> 00:24:26.138
It's either an ostrich or an emu.

00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:27.580
It's a bird.

00:24:27.580 --> 00:24:35.335
It's a bird, but somewhere along the line they got some.

00:24:35.335 --> 00:24:36.701
The rumor started that why would they leave that in?

00:24:36.701 --> 00:24:40.593
That's just so silly, because they had a great take If a munchkin actually hung himself.

00:24:40.593 --> 00:24:41.776
They're going to leave it in the movie.

00:24:41.776 --> 00:24:48.969
It's just this insane, the things that people say and the rumors.

00:24:48.989 --> 00:24:53.374
As long as we're on the subject of munchkins, let's talk about this, because actually Judy was responsible for a lot of these things.

00:24:53.374 --> 00:25:08.536
Because Judy was a wonderful, wonderful storyteller, a wonderful raconteur and she would get on talk shows later in her life, in the 60s, and tell hysterical stories about her adventures.

00:25:08.536 --> 00:25:16.109
She had quite a few adventures and she, you know, near the end of her life in particular, she would get more and more unfiltered and she tells a wonderful story about the munchkins.

00:25:16.109 --> 00:25:26.935
You know being ra be more and more unfiltered and she tells a wonderful story about the munchkins you know have being raucous and you know getting drunk and because Jack Parr, I think, asked her, you know they were little people and she says they were drunks, you know.

00:25:26.935 --> 00:25:36.817
And she talks about having to pick them up one by one in butterfly nets and bring them to the set and how they were always having drunken revelries and orgies, and so that's you know.

00:25:37.464 --> 00:25:38.830
The Culver Hotel is still there.

00:25:38.830 --> 00:25:47.711
I used to work nearby and passed it on my lunch walks, and the hotel is walking distance from where the MGM lot was, and that lot was bought by Sony Studios.

00:25:47.711 --> 00:25:48.693
So that's what's there now.

00:25:49.276 --> 00:25:49.455
Yes.

00:25:49.664 --> 00:25:56.554
And the Culver Hotel is where they put up the people who played the munchkins and Judy said there were hundreds of them.

00:25:56.554 --> 00:25:59.007
They put them all in one hotel.

00:25:59.007 --> 00:26:04.157
They got smashed every night and the police would pick them up in butterfly nets.

00:26:04.458 --> 00:26:08.554
Yes, that's so funny.

00:26:08.554 --> 00:26:22.673
No, but uh, in listener, if you get a chance to go to youtube and look up judy garland jack parr show 1967, because the way judy tells it is so hysterically funny and they, you know, never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

00:26:22.673 --> 00:26:25.411
And it's such an entertaining story.

00:26:25.411 --> 00:26:28.228
But, yeah, that you know thanks to her she liked to embellish.

00:26:28.228 --> 00:26:31.553
God bless her and we're all the more entertained for it.

00:26:31.553 --> 00:26:34.626
But they was such a legend that they made a film of it, remember.

00:26:34.626 --> 00:26:35.748
But it was such a legend that they made a film of it.

00:26:35.748 --> 00:26:41.352
Remember, there was a horrible film called Under the Rainbow with Chevy Chase and Carrie Fisher God awful.

00:26:41.352 --> 00:26:50.700
And it was all about the crazy rumored goings on making Wizard of Oz, all of it, which was pretty much not true, you know.

00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:58.938
I mean, of course I'm sure they had parties, but I don't think they weren't drunken, they weren't picking them up in butterfly of nets, as Junie says.

00:26:58.938 --> 00:26:59.544
So it's kind of crazy.

00:27:00.464 --> 00:27:06.565
Now I've read interviews with some of the other munchkins later in life and they said, yes, there were some that got drunk regularly.

00:27:06.565 --> 00:27:11.669
But I wonder why some others got on that rumor bandwagon.

00:27:11.890 --> 00:27:12.813
Because it's a good story.

00:27:13.184 --> 00:27:18.978
Producer Mervyn LeRoy said that they had sex orgies in the hotel and they had to have police on every floor.

00:27:21.306 --> 00:27:22.109
That's very funny.

00:27:22.109 --> 00:27:23.913
Mervyn LeRoy said that.

00:27:23.913 --> 00:27:25.345
Really, that's so funny.

00:27:25.345 --> 00:27:29.817
What source are you citing there, Brad TMZ?

00:27:31.586 --> 00:27:34.115
No, don't ever accuse me of quoting TMZ.

00:27:34.115 --> 00:27:37.492
There were several sources, including Vanity Fair.

00:27:37.973 --> 00:27:39.226
Well, here's the thing Now.

00:27:39.226 --> 00:27:40.270
Imagine if you will.

00:27:40.270 --> 00:27:42.269
Imagine if you will.

00:27:42.269 --> 00:27:43.694
You're a little person.

00:27:43.694 --> 00:27:47.391
You're, you know and you are, have never seen anyone who looks like you.

00:27:47.391 --> 00:27:51.296
It's kind of like a gay man coming into West Hollywood for the first time.

00:27:51.296 --> 00:27:56.028
If you're living somewhere in the Midwest and you don't know, you've never seen anyone else like you.

00:27:56.028 --> 00:28:05.013
If you're living somewhere in the Midwest and you don't know, you've never seen anyone else like you, and then you get to this place, this magical place called Hollywood, and suddenly you're surrounded by people who are exactly like you.

00:28:05.013 --> 00:28:06.575
Can you imagine?

00:28:06.575 --> 00:28:09.057
I think I go a little crazy too, you know.

00:28:09.057 --> 00:28:10.196
In fact I did a few times.

00:28:10.196 --> 00:28:10.837
So there you go.

00:28:11.699 --> 00:28:17.722
It was during the Depression, and that was a time when little people still were ostracized and had a hard time finding jobs.

00:28:17.962 --> 00:28:18.182
Yeah.

00:28:18.503 --> 00:28:24.794
People accused PT Barnum of exploiting people at that time, which he did, but he also gave them jobs when no one else would.

00:28:24.794 --> 00:28:28.039
So in this movie can it be argued that they exploited people?

00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:29.529
Yes, I think they did.

00:28:29.892 --> 00:28:30.133
Right.

00:28:30.505 --> 00:28:33.535
But I've read interviews and these folks were happy that they had jobs.

00:28:41.744 --> 00:28:45.698
Well, a large majority of them were this group called the Singer Midgets, who did exactly what you said, you know, who were basically in fairs and circuses and things like that.

00:28:45.698 --> 00:28:46.099
But they recruited.

00:28:46.099 --> 00:28:58.366
There were plenty of you know non-actors or non-performers in this group and there were very young little people mixed in with older people, people mixed in with older people.

00:28:58.366 --> 00:29:04.926
So some of the people who survived, who were interviewed in later documentaries, were very young, obviously in 1939, that they could be alive in 1989 for the 50th and be interviewed.

00:29:04.926 --> 00:29:06.551
But it's really fascinating.

00:29:06.551 --> 00:29:08.336
I mean I can imagine they wouldn't go crazy.

00:29:08.336 --> 00:29:11.273
It makes perfect sense to me that they would go crazy.

00:29:12.244 --> 00:29:14.267
Some have said that they couldn't believe they were in Hollywood.

00:29:14.267 --> 00:29:16.950
It was like a dream come true, right, some of them said that they couldn't believe they were in Hollywood.

00:29:16.950 --> 00:29:18.270
It was like a dream come true, right as far as that story goes.

00:29:18.270 --> 00:29:21.953
Sidney Luft, judy's third husband I presume you read his book, right?

00:29:21.953 --> 00:29:27.640
Yes, in the memoir he says they made Judy's life miserable by putting their hands under her dress.

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.882
Yeah, there's no—that's Sid Luft.

00:29:33.005 --> 00:29:34.912
And they thought they could get away with anything because they were so small.

00:29:34.912 --> 00:29:37.641
I'm sure Judy made comments at one point and then he carried that on.

00:29:37.641 --> 00:29:41.431
I mean, I think that, sid Luft, it's an interesting book.

00:29:41.431 --> 00:29:46.173
I don't you have to take it with a grain of salt, as you do with most biographies of Judy Garland.

00:29:46.173 --> 00:29:54.712
Most of them are the writer's agenda and so many of them, so many of the things they purport are not true and have been proven to be not true.

00:29:54.712 --> 00:29:58.869
And I think the thing with the munchkins is some embellishment.

00:29:58.869 --> 00:30:08.096
I'm sure Judy just talks about one munchkin asking her out for dinner and she said she couldn't, you know, but she didn't want to say I can't because you're a midget.

00:30:08.096 --> 00:30:12.307
She said you know, but she said her mother wouldn't like it, she was a young girl.

00:30:12.307 --> 00:30:14.729
So I that's another one of those myths.

00:30:14.729 --> 00:30:20.593
You know the myths about the munchkins which just people perpetuate because you know it shines a light on them.

00:30:20.593 --> 00:30:23.134
I guess it makes them seem important.

00:30:23.454 --> 00:30:23.914
He claimed.

00:30:23.914 --> 00:30:27.897
When she said my mother wouldn't like it, he said your mom could join us.

00:30:27.897 --> 00:30:37.807
Bring your ma too, yeah bring her along, and it's probably true that one or two guys were creepy and of course they have to give it the whole.

00:30:37.807 --> 00:30:38.249
Blanket them on.

00:30:39.192 --> 00:30:41.287
but it makes a more entertaining story, doesn't it?

00:30:41.287 --> 00:30:41.847
You know?

00:30:41.847 --> 00:30:43.352
And people love that's, you know.

00:30:43.352 --> 00:30:46.953
Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story, and it's, it's the thing, you know.

00:30:46.953 --> 00:30:56.156
One of the other myths about the wizard of oz, which I always thought is mind-blowing, is that it wasn't a success when it first was released, and that's's absolutely not true Now.

00:30:56.156 --> 00:31:00.797
It had a huge budget, so it didn't make back its money the first time.

00:31:00.797 --> 00:31:08.214
However, it was still an incredibly successful film and it did make back its money on its reissue in the 40s.

00:31:08.214 --> 00:31:17.759
So at no point in time was the Wizard of Oz ever considered a flop or a bomb or any of that other malarkey that people say about the Wizard of Oz.

00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:25.002
It was always an event, it was always a hit, from the very very moment it premiered in 1939.

00:31:25.002 --> 00:31:27.671
It was also overshadowed by Gone with the Wind.

00:31:27.671 --> 00:31:28.472
So there you go.

00:31:28.894 --> 00:31:30.076
Gone with the Wind, blew it away.

00:31:30.625 --> 00:31:31.949
Well, gone with the Wind blew everything away.

00:31:31.949 --> 00:31:34.476
I mean, that's just the reality of it.

00:31:34.476 --> 00:31:36.170
And they both have lasted.

00:31:36.170 --> 00:31:43.576
Isn't it amazing these two films from 1939.

00:31:43.576 --> 00:31:47.884
These films are still iconic films.

00:31:47.884 --> 00:31:49.008
They're still being shown.

00:31:49.008 --> 00:31:50.271
They're still events.

00:31:50.271 --> 00:31:55.970
I love going to a film festival to see the Wizard of Oz on a big screen, because there's nothing like it.

00:31:55.970 --> 00:31:58.134
There's nothing like seeing Gone with the Wind on a big screen.

00:31:58.134 --> 00:31:59.337
I think we talked about that one time.

00:31:59.337 --> 00:32:03.476
Seeing it with an audience Wizard of Oz is what I'm talking about.

00:32:03.476 --> 00:32:07.776
Seeing it with an audience is so moving and the humor is so.

00:32:07.776 --> 00:32:12.607
Bert Lahr with an audience oh my god, there's just nothing like that.

00:32:13.189 --> 00:32:19.875
I used to live 80 miles east of San Francisco and one of my regrets is a buddy of mine went to the Wizard of Oz sing-along at the Castro Theater.

00:32:19.875 --> 00:32:28.736
He said it was amazing and so much fun and, of course, being in the Castro, everybody had a big laugh when the cowardly lions fell down and his legs were in the air.

00:32:28.736 --> 00:32:34.313
Yeah, and you know, he did talk about being a dandelion, with the flit of the rich, that's stupid.

00:32:34.814 --> 00:32:35.714
That's very funny.

00:32:35.714 --> 00:32:41.030
No, it's, it's, it's wonderful and it's just genius and they crafted that character.

00:32:41.030 --> 00:32:46.329
If you've ever seen a, well here's something to do catch a bertlar film.

00:32:46.329 --> 00:32:49.415
That's not the wizard of oz, it's the same character.

00:32:49.415 --> 00:32:50.157
This is.

00:32:50.157 --> 00:32:57.458
This is who bertlar did, but to see him do the and not be in the lion outfit is really kind of startling.

00:32:57.458 --> 00:32:59.188
You're like, wait a minute, but you're the lion.

00:32:59.188 --> 00:33:02.536
You know, definitely his claim to fame, but that's.

00:33:02.536 --> 00:33:05.692
That's such an incredible, such a genius performance.

00:33:06.192 --> 00:33:15.571
I don't understand why he wasn't nominated for best supporting actor because it's a genius performance I must say his song I am the king of the forest is my least favorite song in the whole movie.

00:33:16.374 --> 00:33:16.575
Yeah.

00:33:19.546 --> 00:33:23.945
They took out the song Jitterbug and if you go to YouTube and look up Wizard of Oz the Jitterbug, you'll see why they took it out.

00:33:23.945 --> 00:33:25.068
It was a good decision.

00:33:26.089 --> 00:33:28.652
Yeah, I actually enjoy King of the Forest.

00:33:28.652 --> 00:33:33.355
You have to give Burt Lahr a song because he was a Broadway star.

00:33:33.355 --> 00:33:35.938
He was a name back then.

00:33:35.938 --> 00:33:38.680
So you have to give him a song a bit.

00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:55.739
And if you notice when they first meet him, his If I Only had the Noive is much shorter than If I Only had a Heart and If I Only had a Brain, shorter than if I only had a heart and if I only had a brain, because they knew he would have this kind of piece de resistance if I were the king of the forest.

00:33:55.739 --> 00:33:59.375
And he had to have something to do while they were waiting to go see the wizard.

00:33:59.375 --> 00:34:00.137
So they had this.

00:34:00.137 --> 00:34:03.054
They had to wait to go, you know, find out if they could go see the wizard.

00:34:03.054 --> 00:34:03.615
So they had to give.

00:34:03.615 --> 00:34:04.298
Something had to happen.

00:34:04.298 --> 00:34:05.391
So they gave Bert Laura a song.

00:34:06.913 --> 00:34:12.063
I did notice, other than when they introduced themselves, he was the only one that had a solo, other than Judy.

00:34:12.063 --> 00:34:16.338
I didn't like the song, but I can't argue that did show the range in his voice.

00:34:16.338 --> 00:34:17.695
I just wasn't fond of it.

00:34:18.612 --> 00:34:20.016
I think it's a genius song.

00:34:20.016 --> 00:34:32.202
I don't know the rhyme, the lyrics of EY Harburg, who wrote the lyrics, did these rhymes which are just so you know, I could rat, I could rattle every riddle for any individual.

00:34:32.202 --> 00:34:41.619
I mean, the way he changed words and molded words to fit the rhymes is so smart and funny and whimsical.

00:34:41.619 --> 00:34:48.072
You know, sometimes when people do that it doesn't work, but he did it in a way which was so ironic and so whimsical that you know the naive.

00:34:48.072 --> 00:35:01.626
I mean just knowing how Burt Lahr spoke and then caressing the rhyme in the song to fit the way he spoke, to fit his dialect, is just one of the many genius things about this film which I love.

00:35:01.626 --> 00:35:03.027
You know what I mean.

00:35:03.090 --> 00:35:05.217
It's not like you know, somebody else is going out there.

00:35:05.217 --> 00:35:08.157
Have you ever gone to a concert and Tony Bennett sang?

00:35:08.157 --> 00:35:10.442
If I Only had the Nerve, I don't think so.

00:35:10.442 --> 00:35:14.798
But he wrote it for the character and they knew Burt Lahr was going to be this character.

00:35:14.798 --> 00:35:21.632
So they wrote it in his speech and that's why it's so funny, because you've got this lion, this cowardly lion, from New York.

00:35:21.632 --> 00:35:29.900
This is one of the things I didn't appreciate until I was older, of course, and I could get the humor and I could understand oh, this is a cowardly lion from the Bronx.

00:35:29.900 --> 00:35:33.092
Okay, I get it and it's just so funny.

00:35:33.092 --> 00:35:37.063
I find it such a smart, smart movie in so many ways.

00:35:37.289 --> 00:35:38.817
Give us another rumor that you can dispute.

00:35:40.451 --> 00:35:52.434
There's a myth out there that nobody got along when they were making it, that it was just hell on earth to make and as difficult as it was for the Jack Haley's and the Ray Bolgers because of their costumes, there wasn't.

00:35:52.434 --> 00:35:53.757
None of that was true.

00:35:53.757 --> 00:35:55.501
Everybody adored Judy Garland.

00:35:55.501 --> 00:35:57.393
There was no animosity, she didn't.

00:35:57.393 --> 00:35:57.994
You know.

00:35:57.994 --> 00:36:13.483
She also liked to tell a story, a very funny story again on Jack Parr, about being shut out by the three of them and the director stopping and say you three dirty hams, let that little girl in there, because she said they would shut her out when they were doing the Yellow Brick Road dance.

00:36:13.483 --> 00:36:14.704
And that's not true.

00:36:14.704 --> 00:36:17.298
I mean, you can see, the Yellow Brick Road is very narrow.

00:36:17.298 --> 00:36:25.976
So, yeah, there were probably moments when one of them had to squish over a little bit, but nobody was trying to upstage anybody, nobody was trying to push anybody else out.

00:36:25.976 --> 00:36:27.655
They all adored her.

00:36:27.655 --> 00:36:29.797
She adored them.

00:36:29.797 --> 00:36:31.371
She adored them.

00:36:31.371 --> 00:36:32.697
She adored them for the rest of her life.

00:36:32.697 --> 00:36:34.726
There's another myth that you know that they didn't, that they got later on.

00:36:34.726 --> 00:36:35.891
There was animosity between.

00:36:35.891 --> 00:36:37.998
No, she adored them all.

00:36:37.998 --> 00:36:39.782
She had Ray Bolger on her TV show.

00:36:39.782 --> 00:36:45.717
You could see very clearly the love between them and they still shared.

00:36:45.717 --> 00:36:47.201
You know Jack Haley.

00:36:47.201 --> 00:36:48.264
She adored Jack Haley.

00:36:48.264 --> 00:36:50.364
Jack Haley Jr married her daughter.

00:36:50.364 --> 00:36:52.284
He's one of Liza Minnelli's husbands.

00:36:52.284 --> 00:36:54.264
He produced that's Entertainment.

00:36:54.264 --> 00:36:56.766
So there's a real connection there.

00:36:56.865 --> 00:37:03.206
And also another myth is that she ever had anything negative about Over the Rainbow.

00:37:03.206 --> 00:37:06.148
She honored Over the Rainbow so much her entire life.

00:37:06.148 --> 00:37:18.041
They wanted her to sing it to close out her television show in the 60s every week and she said no, that song is too special to close every episode of a TV show.

00:37:18.041 --> 00:37:24.963
She said I don't want anyone to lose whatever special feeling they have for Over the Rainbow by doing it every week.

00:37:24.963 --> 00:37:29.630
So she only sang it once on our TV show and that was at Christmas time and it made it all the more special.

00:37:29.630 --> 00:37:33.940
She honored that song and she honored what people felt about that song.

00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:38.175
I believe it was that song, probably more than the movie itself, that made her a big star.

00:37:39.237 --> 00:37:39.978
Oh, absolutely.

00:37:39.978 --> 00:37:42.431
I mean, talk about the perfect.

00:37:42.431 --> 00:37:48.443
I don't think there's ever been a better match of actor or singer with song.

00:37:48.443 --> 00:37:54.175
I mean, I don't care how many people sing over the rainbow, it will always be hers.

00:37:54.175 --> 00:37:55.762
That's just the way it is.

00:37:55.762 --> 00:37:56.485
You just can't.

00:37:56.485 --> 00:37:58.492
You'll never get anybody singing it better.

00:37:58.492 --> 00:38:02.590
Some people added verse and some people, you know, speed it up and some people slow it down.

00:38:02.590 --> 00:38:06.260
They can sing it, but it'll still be hers, nobody else's.

00:38:06.860 --> 00:38:09.072
Every time I hear her sing it, it's magical.

00:38:09.974 --> 00:38:10.596
And she's.

00:38:10.596 --> 00:38:11.318
She changed way.

00:38:11.318 --> 00:38:14.043
She sang it too, which is really I find fascinating.

00:38:14.043 --> 00:38:19.342
If you listen to it in the Wizard of Oz and then you hear her sing it in the mid-40s, it's much different.

00:38:19.342 --> 00:38:25.103
And then, of course, when she did it in her concerts in the 50s and 60s, it's just a devastating song.

00:38:25.103 --> 00:38:29.155
It's so, oh, it's emotionally gut-wrenching, oh, it's emotionally gut-wrenching.

00:38:29.155 --> 00:38:36.565
And then you remember how she sang it in the Wizard of Oz, this young, wistful longing that Dorothy had for a different life.

00:38:38.489 --> 00:38:42.538
It's really wonderful, and that is something I never caught before you talked about.

00:38:42.538 --> 00:38:51.152
She sang that song because she's looking for something better when that movie opens up.

00:38:51.152 --> 00:38:52.474
Auntie Em is a royal bitch.

00:38:52.474 --> 00:38:53.755
I'm like why is she missing this woman?

00:38:53.755 --> 00:38:56.217
I mean, I get it, but I think she played a little heavy.

00:38:56.597 --> 00:38:57.338
Well, I think they were.

00:38:57.338 --> 00:39:03.266
Yeah, they were trying to illustrate how very I mean, this was a depression, how very desperate these people were.

00:39:03.266 --> 00:39:08.197
People, you know, people were losing their farms and the drought you know, all that stuff is so depressing.

00:39:08.197 --> 00:39:11.623
It's interesting that he wrote the Wizard of Oz in 1900.

00:39:11.623 --> 00:39:19.443
But in 1939, the situation, you know, in states like Kansas, in the Dust Bowl, was even more dire.

00:39:19.443 --> 00:39:26.143
So it's kind of it really plays into that kind of desperation of we're going to lose everything here.

00:39:26.143 --> 00:39:33.036
And you see why Dorothy is so unhappy now she wants to escape, you know, because it's not much of a life for a young girl.

00:39:33.378 --> 00:39:39.079
If you pay attention, you can see that things aren't going well that day and she's frustrated and she is trying to keep things together.

00:39:39.500 --> 00:39:40.141
She's a young kid.

00:39:40.141 --> 00:39:42.235
She wants you know she's getting people's hair.

00:39:42.414 --> 00:39:43.157
Auntie Em, I mean.

00:39:44.059 --> 00:39:45.342
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, she will.

00:39:45.342 --> 00:39:55.311
Yeah, she's definitely it's not.

00:39:55.311 --> 00:39:56.032
She's not having a good day.

00:39:56.032 --> 00:39:57.793
And then to have this tornado come and, you know, whisk her niece away in the house.

00:39:57.793 --> 00:39:59.476
Not a Annie M is not Annie M's very bad day.

00:39:59.476 --> 00:40:02.800
The Wizard of Oz, aka Annie M's very bad day.

00:40:03.782 --> 00:40:10.268
But you know, then it ends up being an incredible dream and there's no place like home, which is pretty astounding.

00:40:10.268 --> 00:40:12.231
The way it wraps up, it makes it's just.

00:40:12.231 --> 00:40:18.460
I love the logic of it, the logic of the story just wrapping.

00:40:18.460 --> 00:40:21.273
Having it bookended by the Kansas scenes is just.

00:40:21.273 --> 00:40:27.096
It's so much more impactful than if it had been written, if it had been filmed as it was written, as something that really happened.

00:40:27.096 --> 00:40:32.260
And how about the PS, the resistance that she could have gone home anytime she wanted.

00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:35.458
All she had to do was click her heels three times.

00:40:35.458 --> 00:40:41.840
You know there's a very funny it's not Saturday Night Live, it's MADtv, I think where they did the Wizard of Oz.

00:40:42.403 --> 00:40:46.416
Glinda says that to Dorothy and whoever played Dorothy was just like, are you kidding me?

00:40:46.416 --> 00:40:51.592
And she attacks Glinda and you're kind of like that.

00:40:51.592 --> 00:40:55.789
You're like, wait a minute, I could have left any time and you made me go through all this and I had the power the entire time.

00:40:55.789 --> 00:41:07.581
It's crazy, but it factors into the theme of that movie, which is they're all looking for something to make them feel, quote, unquote, whole, and they have it the entire time.

00:41:07.581 --> 00:41:11.597
The scarecrow is always getting them out of situations.

00:41:11.597 --> 00:41:12.992
But, yes, he says he doesn't have a brain.

00:41:12.992 --> 00:41:18.192
The tinwoodman needs a heart, but he's the most emotional and the most sentimental.

00:41:18.192 --> 00:41:22.280
The lion is quite brave in many of these instances.

00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:29.672
And Dorothy says at the end of the movie you know, if I ever go looking for my heart's desire, I better not look any further than my own backyard.

00:41:29.672 --> 00:41:31.418
That's what she's saying.

00:41:31.418 --> 00:41:33.315
And she said your home is inside you.

00:41:33.315 --> 00:41:35.601
You've always had it, You've always been there.

00:41:35.601 --> 00:41:37.454
So I think that's another brilliant thing about the film.

00:41:38.257 --> 00:41:39.900
Let's get to something that really bugs me.

00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:44.362
Her saying to the scarecrow I'm going to miss you most of all drives me nuts.

00:41:44.610 --> 00:41:45.731
I've always wondered about that.

00:41:45.931 --> 00:41:47.371
Well, I'm sorry, it's just rude.

00:41:48.891 --> 00:42:00.016
You know, I did find one source, one which claimed that when the script was first being developed and remember, there were more than 12 screenwriters who worked on this film.

00:42:00.137 --> 00:42:03.478
Aren't there normally like three Twelve At most Exactly.

00:42:03.699 --> 00:42:05.340
Well, this film also had four directors.

00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:10.782
I think I said five earlier and I can't count Four directors and one of these early versions.

00:42:10.782 --> 00:42:20.626
Once they realized that Dorothy was going to be an adolescent girl, ie Judy Garland, there was a subplot in which she had a crush on Hunk.

00:42:20.626 --> 00:42:31.351
You know Ray Bolger's Kansas character, which I love that name, you know.

00:42:31.351 --> 00:42:31.994
But they eliminated it, you know.

00:42:31.994 --> 00:42:32.355
But that was only.

00:42:32.355 --> 00:42:33.117
That was only one, only one source.

00:42:33.117 --> 00:42:34.039
So that's another one of these myths.

00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:36.166
Maybe that is true, maybe it's not true.

00:42:36.166 --> 00:42:40.505
I think she says it because, you know, he's her oldest friend in Oz.

00:42:40.505 --> 00:42:45.157
She's known him the longest and she was pretty scared when she first got to Oz.

00:42:45.157 --> 00:42:49.114
So it kind of makes sense that she would miss him most of all.

00:42:49.474 --> 00:42:51.059
And we really aren't given a passage of time.

00:42:51.059 --> 00:42:54.237
I mean it looks like it's all in a day or two, but it could be months.

00:42:54.237 --> 00:42:54.878
For all we know.

00:42:54.878 --> 00:42:59.476
Yes, Could be, Time could be different.

00:42:59.476 --> 00:43:02.355
Somewhere between Munchkinland and Oz.

00:43:02.355 --> 00:43:04.179
They've had to take a nap somewhere.

00:43:04.179 --> 00:43:04.940
We never saw that.

00:43:06.322 --> 00:43:08.275
Who knows, time could be different in Oz.

00:43:08.275 --> 00:43:15.094
You never know how long they were asleep with those poppies, you never know.

00:43:15.094 --> 00:43:19.021
But did you ever notice, too, that scene at the end where she's getting ready to leave?

00:43:19.021 --> 00:43:34.298
She's in the balloon with the wizard and they're all holding the rope, the balloon down, they're saying their goodbyes and the wizard is just about to leave and then toto jumps out of dorothy's arms towards to get that cat.

00:43:34.298 --> 00:43:34.760
Yeah, that's there.

00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:35.021
Did you ever?

00:43:35.021 --> 00:43:36.405
Did you ever notice the tin man loosening the rope?

00:43:36.405 --> 00:43:40.159
Did he walks around and loosens the rope while they're supposed to be holding it down I have.

00:43:40.221 --> 00:43:46.059
I can never remember when it's on whether it's the tin man or the scarecrow, but I only I have seen them like what?

00:43:46.481 --> 00:43:51.699
yeah, I know it's like why didn't they cut and say, hey, jack, hayley Haley, we can see you do that.

00:43:51.699 --> 00:43:52.842
What are you doing?

00:43:52.842 --> 00:43:58.563
I mean, it's just another one of the mysteries of this movie.

00:43:58.989 --> 00:44:00.655
Was it on purpose or not?

00:44:01.077 --> 00:44:04.378
Yes, exactly, that goes right back into the jitterbug.

00:44:04.378 --> 00:44:05.715
You mentioned the jitterbug earlier.

00:44:05.715 --> 00:44:08.798
Set something on their head to take the bite out of them.

00:44:08.798 --> 00:44:10.836
You know that's the jitterbug.

00:44:11.269 --> 00:44:15.860
Yeah, exactly, and they cut that all out so that one line by itself has no frame of reference.

00:44:15.860 --> 00:44:17.173
It's just this odd line.

00:44:17.596 --> 00:44:18.278
It makes no sense.

00:44:18.278 --> 00:44:21.760
So that's why, when you talk about the, I think I'll miss you most of all.

00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:29.061
Well, if there had been a scene filmed that established that she had a crush on him and it was cut, it makes sense that that line would still be in there.

00:44:29.061 --> 00:44:31.644
But if they never filmed it, why is that line in there?

00:44:31.730 --> 00:44:32.813
They never changed the script.

00:44:33.135 --> 00:44:34.259
Crazy, it's crazy.

00:44:34.259 --> 00:44:35.838
Nobody noticed.

00:44:36.101 --> 00:44:37.516
Yeah, it's like wait a minute, duh.

00:44:37.516 --> 00:44:45.596
The other was Auntie Emma saying something to Jack Haley's character about you were tinkering on machines or something like that.

00:44:46.217 --> 00:44:47.380
Yes, he was.

00:44:47.380 --> 00:44:55.576
Yes, he was creating a machine which was going to deneutralize tornadoes, that was cut.

00:44:55.576 --> 00:45:07.402
So when she but they left that line in, so that was actually in the in the script, and I think that's like wow, that's kind of interesting, because then he goes, someday they're going to erect a statute of me in this town and, um, you know, don't start posing for it now.

00:45:07.402 --> 00:45:15.717
So the the thing about the economy of that is is that you get just enough, but they did leave some things in where you're like, oh, what does that mean?

00:45:15.717 --> 00:45:16.619
Well, what does that mean?

00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:18.315
Well, usually it refers to something that was cut.

00:45:19.298 --> 00:45:20.896
Yeah, why on earth would that guy say that?

00:45:21.690 --> 00:45:22.291
Well, but it also.

00:45:22.291 --> 00:45:23.811
It also fits him as the Tim Woodsman.

00:45:24.311 --> 00:45:27.494
Yeah, I never thought about that line before until I heard they cut it out of the scene.

00:45:27.534 --> 00:45:29.257
Exactly, exactly, same.

00:45:29.257 --> 00:45:35.101
Yeah, so they weren't perfect, but you only notice these things after watching the movie a million times.

00:45:35.101 --> 00:45:39.626
These movies were not designed to be watched over and over like we watch them today, you know.

00:45:39.626 --> 00:45:53.889
So that's another thing too, and they also weren't meant to be seen in ultra HD and 4K, and so we see all these things that they never thought we would see, because they were watching you and you're watching them on film.

00:45:53.889 --> 00:45:53.889
You can't see them.

00:45:53.889 --> 00:45:57.530
So it's interesting we're noticing all these things now that nobody ever would have noticed in 1939

00:45:59.650 --> 00:46:00.855
They thought, well, who cares?

00:46:00.855 --> 00:46:03.099
What happened in season 2, this is going to happen in season 5.

00:46:03.099 --> 00:46:06.315
They don't match, but nobody will remember

00:46:06.356 --> 00:46:09.956
Watch the length of Judy Garland's braids in the scarecrow.

00:46:09.956 --> 00:46:11.050
They go up and they go down.

00:46:11.050 --> 00:46:19.342
They go up and that's because you know they were retakes and somebody was asleep with the switch and didn't realize how long her braids had been when they first shot it.

00:46:19.342 --> 00:46:28.818
So yeah, those are just things you have to take with a grain of salt in every film you're going to find that we're just aware of it now, because we can watch them over and over and over again.

00:46:30.081 --> 00:46:33.757
Well, I think that you know, I think that we covered a lot of ground about the wizard of oz.

00:46:33.757 --> 00:46:38.820
I mean, there's so much more to talk about because, like I said, there are entire shows that are dedicated to the wizard of oz.

00:46:38.820 --> 00:46:42.942
But I think I think we did a pretty good overview of it for us.

00:46:44.547 --> 00:46:48.375
except I gotta be honest, I was surprised, I didn't like it You

00:46:49.016 --> 00:46:49.235
no, like it.

00:46:49.235 --> 00:46:50.018
You don't like was it a boss?

00:46:50.018 --> 00:46:50.478
No, not at all.

00:46:50.478 --> 00:46:51.179
You don't like what?

00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:53.443
There are great, great things about this film.

00:46:53.443 --> 00:46:56.916
Like every time they skipped down the road, I was amazed at the sets.

00:46:56.916 --> 00:47:01.940
They were huge and I kept saying they're going to have to stop skipping soon because they're going to hit a wall.

00:47:02.690 --> 00:47:06.541
Okay, I think you've buried the lead here, so you don't like this movie.

00:47:07.362 --> 00:47:10.384
No, judy did great, but I did not like this film at all.

00:47:10.384 --> 00:47:12.005
I didn't like the munchkins.

00:47:12.005 --> 00:47:12.806
They were creepy.

00:47:12.806 --> 00:47:15.851
Now, I know, at that time the artwork was different.

00:47:15.851 --> 00:47:25.115
They had what we call grotesque style, but they creeped me out and I was put off by them dancing and singing that the witch was dead.

00:47:25.115 --> 00:47:26.251
I thought that was grotesque.

00:47:26.251 --> 00:47:28.978
And then her shoes curled and her legs curl up.

00:47:28.978 --> 00:47:29.759
That was gross.

00:47:30.260 --> 00:47:34.467
Well, hello, she was a dictator, let me tell you.

00:47:34.467 --> 00:47:36.818
So they're going to celebrate when she dies.

00:47:37.769 --> 00:47:38.795
Okay, Dorothy and the Tower.

00:47:38.795 --> 00:47:40.255
Now, Judy did a great job.

00:47:40.255 --> 00:47:41.429
You could feel Dorothy's pain.

00:47:41.429 --> 00:47:42.594
You could see Dorothy's pain.

00:47:42.594 --> 00:47:47.157
All of this is while she's waiting for the sand to go down in the hourglass, which is my problem.

00:47:47.157 --> 00:47:48.579
Why did the witch do that?

00:47:48.579 --> 00:47:49.782
It's like a Bond villain.

00:47:49.782 --> 00:47:50.844
Just kill her.

00:47:56.090 --> 00:47:56.831
Because she wants to torture her.

00:47:56.831 --> 00:47:59.097
It's like the last to die will watch the first three go before her.

00:47:59.097 --> 00:47:59.579
I mean, she's a witch.

00:47:59.579 --> 00:48:00.721
She's a bad witch.

00:48:00.721 --> 00:48:02.144
Bad witches are ugly.

00:48:02.144 --> 00:48:03.728
She's a bad witch.

00:48:03.728 --> 00:48:10.458
Margaret Hamilton tells a very funny story about getting the offer to do the Wizard of Oz and she goes oh gosh, I've loved those stories my whole life.

00:48:10.458 --> 00:48:11.740
What part?

00:48:11.740 --> 00:48:18.012
And her agent goes well, the witch, what else?

00:48:18.012 --> 00:48:20.195
So that pretty much says it right there.

00:48:20.755 --> 00:48:24.400
And I don't think people give her enough credit as a Elmyra Gulch and as the witch.

00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:25.641
She did a great job.

00:48:26.443 --> 00:48:29.106
She is wonderful and she wasn't the first choice.

00:48:29.106 --> 00:48:37.514
They were going to go with a beautiful witch, with an actress named gail sondergaard who had just won an oscar the year before because of snow white's beautiful witch.

00:48:37.514 --> 00:48:41.081
So they want beautiful queen witch, whatever.

00:48:41.081 --> 00:48:42.914
So they thought we're going to go this route.

00:48:42.914 --> 00:48:44.621
But they're like no, the witch has to be.

00:48:44.621 --> 00:48:49.016
A child's witch is ugly and scary and that's why they went.

00:48:49.016 --> 00:48:51.061
I mean, they made margaret hamilton much.

00:48:51.061 --> 00:48:55.846
Margaret hamilton was not an ugly woman, but they obviously made her look like a witch.

00:48:59.038 --> 00:49:02.675
okay, let me cover my ass here a little bit, though it's probably not going to be as much as people want.

00:49:02.675 --> 00:49:05.952
Okay, obviously I'm not going to remember it as well as I did as a kid.

00:49:05.952 --> 00:49:06.896
That's to be expected.

00:49:06.896 --> 00:49:08.561
But the script, everything.

00:49:08.561 --> 00:49:10.385
I was just really let down.

00:49:10.385 --> 00:49:15.032
And there's so many great things I can say about this movie, but in the end I was bored.

00:49:17.601 --> 00:49:19.056
Alright, you're going to get a pass on this.

00:49:19.056 --> 00:49:22.880
There are people who are just screaming now.

00:49:23.264 --> 00:49:24.413
I'm absolutely certain of it.

00:49:24.413 --> 00:49:26.391
I am going to get hate emails.

00:49:26.893 --> 00:49:29.034
Don't do that, people, we'll agree to disagree.

00:49:29.295 --> 00:49:34.003
No, no, I want to hear your opinions, but yeah, I think we covered it all, at least enough for today.

00:49:34.768 --> 00:49:35.110
And we did.

00:49:35.110 --> 00:49:36.597
We'll put a pin in it.

00:49:36.597 --> 00:49:41.777
Maybe we'll come watch the Wizard of Oz again and maybe your opinion will change next time, Maybe, Maybe.

00:49:41.777 --> 00:49:43.235
Thanks for listening everybody.

00:49:43.896 --> 00:49:44.438
Bye-bye.

00:49:44.438 --> 00:49:50.394
Do you enjoy going to Hollywood?

00:49:50.394 --> 00:49:58.483
Well, of course you do, and Tony and I would like you to do something for us and, more important, for other podcast listeners out there.

00:49:58.483 --> 00:50:06.518
Go to Apple Podcasts, itunes, spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts, and rate and review this show.

00:50:06.518 --> 00:50:09.018
A five-star would be especially nice.

00:50:09.018 --> 00:50:18.014
That way, when others are looking for a new show, they'll see ours and see those reviews and they will stop and listen and boy, that will make their day.

00:50:18.014 --> 00:50:19.818
It will be much appreciated.

00:50:19.818 --> 00:50:21.623
Thank you for being with us.