Rhoda's Wedding: Whatever Happened to Rhoda Morgenstern?

Tony Maietta:
Hello. I'm film historian, Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just the guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve:
And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
So, Tony, you're gonna hate me.

Tony Maietta:
It's a pretty safe bet.

Brad Shreve:
Every week, you wanna sing songs, and I stop you so we don't get into copyright issues and get pulled off the air.

Tony Maietta:
It's not because of my voice.

Brad Shreve:
No. That's part of it. We that we won't go there. Mostly the copyright issue. But I'm gonna break that today. I'm gonna break that rule. I put you down in a noise saying don't do it, and I'm gonna do it today.

Tony Maietta:
You're gonna sing?

Brad Shreve:
La la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la. I know how

Tony Maietta:
I wonder how you even write lyrics to that song. I like it. Rhods is single, now she is wed, then she's divorced and then she is dead. God. I'm so fast.

Brad Shreve:
Tony, we have our first guest co host today. We do. And I think you should introduce the gentleman.

Tony Maietta:
We do. I am so excited. I always say that, but I am. So I'm not lying.

Brad Shreve:
Tony's easy to excite.

Tony Maietta:
I am easy to excite. I'm thrilled because we have with us the one and only Scott Fullerton, who is, for those of you who are in the know, is the host of the Left of Str8 podcast, which I was on, what, about a year ago, Scott? It was about a year ago, wasn't it?

Scott Fullerton:
Yeah. It was.

Tony Maietta:
Iit was my first best appearance on the podcast. I was on The Good Vanilla before that, but it was certainly a memorable one. And we talked forever, so I am so thrilled, and I'm proudest too, to have you on. Thanks for being with us.

Scott Fullerton:
I appreciate. I'm so excited and honored to be the first guest cohost, and I'm loving what you guys are doing. I told you as soon as I you started the podcast, I was so excited for you and Brad. I was a little jealous of Brad. It's like you and I had talked about it a year ago. Damn it. And look at Brad, mister esteemed author, and, just jumps right in, steals my thunder. That's okay.

Tony Maietta:
I was just out there twisting in the wind and and

Brad Shreve:
Scott threatened to steal you away from me. And, you know, there's days where I think, you know, maybe he should.

Scott Fullerton:
Right.

Tony Maietta:
Only when I try to sing. Only when I try to sing.

Brad Shreve:
Speaking of Left of Str8, just about a week from now, this show for you future people is gonna drop on July 31, 2024.

Tony Maietta:
You're awfully optimistic about that.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, yes.

Tony Maietta:
You are awfully optimistic. Oh, okay. Alright.

Brad Shreve:
In just over a week, Tony and I will be a guest on Scott's show. Yes. Live. That's scary.

Tony Maietta:
Live in Palm Springs.

Scott Fullerton:
I don't know how you know when you're doing these shows. I tried. Unless I'm doing it live. I have no idea when the shows are gonna make shows are gonna air.

Brad Shreve:
I don't usually schedule them, but this one I'm gonna stick to.

Tony Maietta:
He's being incredibly optimistic. Yes. We're going to be live in Palm Springs if that's not an oxymoron. Yes. And I am very excited about nobody got that. I thought that was funny. I'm very excited. We're very excited to do it.

Tony Maietta:
I'm very excited to do my first live, pod podcast. Well, yeah, my first live podcast.

Scott Fullerton:
It will be fun. I'm so excited to have you guys out to Palm Springs. I get to do a little visit there on occasion during the summer, and, the summer heat, if it doesn't do us in, we'll have a nice conversation, but we'll be in in inside. So we'll be okay.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, okay. Oh, so we're not gonna be out in a 122 degree weather? Really? Okay.

Brad Shreve:
See, I I live in a different California desert, and we usually hit a 110. Where Scott is, it's gonna be it's usually about 10 degrees hotter. So, boy, I look forward to that.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I'm looking forward to this conversation today because not only do we have a fabulous co host, but we hinted a little bit about it. We teased it a couple weeks ago if if this does indeed air in a couple weeks

Brad Shreve:
If it's when I said, it's gonna be a few weeks.

Tony Maietta:
grab your rice and your front seats

Tony Maietta:
and your and your aisle seats because we are going to be talking about one of the greatest episodes in television history, Rhoda Morganstern's wedding. It's Rhoda's wedding from Rhoda. Yes. That's why Brad was doing la la la la. That's the theme song

Brad Shreve:
A great show. Rhoda was a spin off for the Mary Tyler Moore Show. It ran for 5 seasons, though I only count the first 3 seasons. The last 2 I don't exist in my head.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. What a trajectory. What a trajectory. We can which I'd love to discuss a little bit about. Because I mean you have to, I think you have to talk about I I was What I was thinking was, is that we're gonna talk about 2 things on this episode. We're gonna talk about 1, the greatest one of the greatest TV shows in the history of television, Rhoda's Wedding, and 2, one of the biggest mysteries in the history of TV, which is what the hell happened to Rhoda Morgenstern? She got married and she was gone. What happened to her?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Yeah. It it was a travesty.

Tony Maietta:
Because Jessica Fletcher level mystery. What do you what do you think, Scott? I mean, tell us a little bit about your history with Rhoda.

Scott Fullerton:
I was I was a big Mary Tyler Moore. I loved Rhoda. Huge Nancy Walker fan. And so it's like, it I thought the casting was great, to begin with, and I thought and she was so much fun. And I gotta tell you, I was so shocked listening to Mary Tyler Moore. I didn't know they did they didn't like her at first because she's one of my favorite characters in in Mary Tyler Moore's show. When they spun her off, I was so excited. But I gotta say, 8 episodes in to get married, I don't know why you kill your your legal like that.

Scott Fullerton:
It was a little interesting to me. But I enjoyed the story. I think they just they they jumped the shark a little early getting her married. I think they could have drugged it out a lot longer.

Tony Maietta:
No foreplay whatsoever.

Brad Shreve:
I have a lot to say about that. And you know, Seth, before we get into this, I have to ask you a question because Tony and I have been debating something. Oh, yeah. We have been discussing whether or not we should do spoiler alerts. Now, our TV and movies typically are gonna be before 1990, though there will be exceptions. So we've been debating, you know, it's so long ago. Do we need spoiler alerts or do we not? What do you think?

Scott Fullerton:
I would not do a spoiler alert. You're you're classic Hollywood. Right? So if they don't do the classic Hollywood, then then spoilers be damned. I think you're good.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. We are now at 50 years, almost. It will be in October, it will be 50 years since this episode aired. It aired October 28, 1970 4. So if we're gonna do a spoiler alert for a 50 year you know what? Do a spoiler alert for me. Spoiler alert. He's 50.

Scott Fullerton:
Do you know all those facts that people might not know going into it? And then you hear about it and you see it in the episode between your expertise and Brad's just fun analysis of it. I think it's really you you want those spoilers. I think it kinda gives a little context for what you're talking about. So

Brad Shreve:
Oh, we're not gonna stop the spoilers. First of all, Tony, thank you for pissing me off by reminding me that this has been 50 years. Go to hell. And, let's talk about the spoiler thing later. Yeah. We'll do it. Maybe we'll consider it for another day.

Tony Maietta:
That's true. That's a good idea. But, yeah, 50 years 50 years. Isn't it isn't it amazing? I can't I mean, I it seems like yesterday won't mess me because I just watched it yesterday. But it seems like 50

Tony Maietta:
that this happened. But it's quite interesting you said, Scott, that it's they blew their wad like 8 episodes. And because originally, the idea was to stretch it out for an entire year. And Rhoda and Joe would get married at the end of the season. However, you know, one of the brilliant minds at CBS thought, oh, no. No. No. Let's do it during sweeps.

Tony Maietta:
And so that's why there are basically 8 episodes prior to this that that lead up to this wedding, which was, of course, the biggest event. And then they had and then then they're like the morning after, like, okay. Now what do we do? Because they're married. Uh-oh.

Brad Shreve:
That choice did pay off. I mean, this was the I love Lucy. The little Ricky episode was the biggest rated episode of all time and then Yes.

Tony Maietta:
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

Tony Maietta:
No. No. No. Rhoda was second. Lucy was still number 1. Lucy got a 73 point 9 share in 1953, and Rhoda Okay. Rhoda had 52,000,000 viewers. Lucy had 44, but you have to remember that a hell of a lot more people had TV sets in 1973, 1974 than they did in 1953.

Tony Maietta:
So you have to go buy shares. And Lucy had a 73.9 share, which beat Rhoda. However, 52,000,000 people, the world literally stopped for this wedding, which is insane. Howard Cosell, who was over on ABC doing Monday Night Football, was saying, I guess it's time to get out the chicken liver because time for you know, I mean, he was constantly referring to everybody watching Rhoda's wedding and not ABC Monday Night Football.

Brad Shreve:
And that reminded me of the final episode of Seinfeld when, Nick at night or one of those channels put a blank screen that said, we're watching the final episode of Seinfeld 2, and they left it there for an hour.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, it's it's that epic. It's that epic. Do you remember when this aired? Am I am I embarrassing people here?

Scott Fullerton:
Was it 75 to 79? Right? It's a 74. 74. Okay. Yeah. November sweeps of 74 then. I thought it was 75, but, yeah, I didn't know it was

Tony Maietta:
Do you remember it, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
I remember this very clearly because my sister-in-law, my brother moved in with us temporarily when he was moving, and my sister-in-law and I were best buds. And she and I sat there and watched together, and we laughed and we laughed, and we laughed through the whole thing. So I remember it very clear clearly. Of course, I was a tot at the time. We have to get that clear.

Tony Maietta:
Very clear. I was in utero. I remember my mother was watching it, and I was in utero, and I could just feel the vibrations. I heard of that. Feel the vibrations of it. No. It was it was it was an event.

Scott Fullerton:
I was sneaking into watching those shows. I was I was young at the time, but I would sneak to stay up to watch Carol Burnett and Mary Tyler Moore and Rhoda. I remember I've got very distinct memories of of staying late and sneaking into the you could my parents would watch them, and I'd kinda sneak in and sit behind them and watch them. I have very distinct memories of that.

Tony Maietta:
It's crazy. Valerie Harper said that they've got she got 100, thousands of toasters from fans. Because, you know, you always gave a toaster all got married. And gifts, and there were wedding parties, and it just it was it was just a celebration. And then for it's and that kind of carried on through the 1st season, and then for it to just fall. So the reverse is when they decided they had to divorce them because they just didn't have the stories, they got 100 of 1000 of hate CBS did hate mail about divorce about separating Rhoda and Joe because they were, you know, the love couple of the seventies. And CBS felt, for some reason, they had no choice because the writers were feeling trapped. The writers were feeling stymied by this situation they'd created.

Tony Maietta:
And Valerie Harper said that what they were trying to do and what in hindsight, she said, what they were trying to create was mad about you. That's what I was gonna say. This was the precursor to mad about you. Exactly. Like a sexy take on marriage, but they couldn't because this was 1974 and there were still censors and the censors would come down to the set and say, Joe cannot be shirtless in that bed. He's gotta put a pajama top on. And they felt very constrained about, you know, this wasn't there was no longer twin beds, but not twin beds was not that far, you know, well, not that far away. They could actually be a single you know? So it was they felt very constrained.

Tony Maietta:
The writers were very constrained about the stories they could tell, and that's the reason why they broke them up. But the backlash I think the ratings fell from, like, I think it was, like, number 1, 24, its 2nd year, and it no. It's number 7. It was number 7 its 2nd year, and it dropped to 33, the 3rd year when they separated them. That's how much viewership dropped. And then it kind of had a little bit of a rebound the following year and went back up into the twenties, but, you know, the writing was on the wall.

Brad Shreve:
The final season was in the toilet.

Tony Maietta:
Well, the they didn't even air all of the episodes of the final season. Yeah. I mean, it was just, like, so sad.

Scott Fullerton:
I think they made the mistake of making him so unlikable. I think that's what hurt it. I think if they would've killed him off or something, or, I mean, sad to say, or if they would've or if he would've got a job

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Scott Fullerton:
Somewhere else or something, and they pulled it apart, but they made it well, I just don't think that I that you kinda forced me and rushed me into this. I think it made him so unlikable that the audience is, like, wait a second. But you guys were so in love by the first episode and married by the 8th episode, and now all of a sudden, you didn't really like the whole idea of it? I think it it went well.

Tony Maietta:
Well yeah. And poor David Groh. I mean, can you imagine being saddled with that the rest of your career? Oh, you're the guy who dumped the beloved Rhoda Morgenstern. I mean, no matter what part you're gonna play for the rest of your life, you're still the guy who dumped Rhoda, you know.

Brad Shreve:
I am furious every time I think about because they were a great couple. He was a great guy.

Tony Maietta:
He was.

Brad Shreve:
I loved it every they may not have showed him shirtless in bed, but I loved it every time he took shirt off. And then he turned in like overnight, he turned into this asshole. Yeah. And just a horrible, horrible person.

Tony Maietta:
Well, the breakup episode, which is the 3rd 1st episode of the 3rd season, is very it's like it comes out of nowhere. It's a it's it's just like, what? You guys were just trying to get away for a sexy romantic weekend, and now you're suddenly feeling stifled by your marriage? Yeah. It really came out of nowhere. There was no build to it, and I think you're right. I think I think they did something very brave because, you know, as we said during the Mary Tyler Moore podcast, no Jews, no divorcees, no people from New York, and no one with mustaches. Well, they had 3 out of 4 there. You know? Joe didn't have a mustache, but he might as well with that hairy chest. And, you know, seventies.

Tony Maietta:
Whew. And so they had 3 out of 4 there, and they were very brave to say, okay. We're going to divorce you. And I don't know that they quite expected the the backlash they got. Which kind of, you know, and after that but here's the thing, this is kinda like I was saying about what the hell happened to Brode and Morgenstern. I guess how do you make a woman who's going through the trauma of a divorce funny? That's your first that's your first obstacle. Okay? And also, the there's just no energy anymore. I mean, she on Mary Tyler Moore show in the first season of Rhoda.

Tony Maietta:
She's just this wonderful, vivacious, sarcastic, you know, always with a quip. And she just seems annoyed for the last 2 seasons of she's just annoyed with everybody. And with all those annoying characters they added, Benny and, the one

Brad Shreve:
Oh, god.

Tony Maietta:
You you know, these the John the the singer Ron Silver. Johnny Bravo. Was that his name? I can't remember what his name is. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
You know,

Tony Maietta:
it's just like Ron Silver's I love Ron Silver. Ron Silver's, was a wonderful actor, but his character was so annoying.

Brad Shreve:
Right. I couldn't stand him.

Tony Maietta:
You know? It was it was just basically her, Julie Cadner. And then, by the way, Nancy Walker also left. So not only do you talk about timing. Not only do you have Rowlett and Joe leave splitting up, Nancy Walker jumped ship to do her own show. I mean, she came back, but by then it was too late.

Scott Fullerton:
Right. I don't I didn't agree with the writing choices at all. I mean, it was so well done the first season. And I just think that once, like you said, once they just came into this dilemma, what do they do now? I don't know if maybe they weren't happy that it's just like, besides think you're I agree with you. The joy was gone. By season 3, the joy was gone in her performance, it seemed like.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, what happened to

Brad Shreve:
me is, like Mary Tyler Moore, it was believable the first three seasons as far as the characters, you loved them. You've got they were friends. You got to know them. And I gotta say, I I think the fact that they wrote them off is inexcusable. Granted, they may have had to because I think of it as Man About You. Mhmm. And sure, they may not have had the the leeway that Man About You had because of the time period. These are great writers.

Brad Shreve:
They could have done it. Yeah. To me, I feel like they were being lazy. Yeah. Joe left the show and it became a slapsticky seventies, eighties sitcom. It just wasn't funny. No. It wasn't funny.

Brad Shreve:
The characters were all annoying as hell. And I don't understand why when there was such a huge backlash, the letters and everything else, and the ratings dropped, why didn't they bring Joe back and have them reunite?

Tony Maietta:
You know, interesting. You know, that's interesting. You know, it's it's there's a lot of some of the one of the producers who who was unnamed said that they the problem was that they saddled themselves with a really lousy actor playing Joe, which I don't think so. I think David Groh was a great actor. It was originally offered to Judd Hirsch from Taxi.

Brad Shreve:
Tony, you and I get excited when we get messages and emails and texts from listeners that tell us how much they enjoy the show.

Tony Maietta:
We do.

Brad Shreve:
But, you know, I think we should push it a little bit and ask them to go a little bit further.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, a challenge.

Brad Shreve:
If you enjoy this show, let others know. Five stars are great. Whatever you wanna give, except 1 star. If you have 1 star, say, you know, this show is not for me and move on. We accept that.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. You don't need to don't give us one star. Be kind. Just say, no. Not for me. Just skip it. Or tell your friends. That's the best way too.

Tony Maietta:
Right? Tell your friends, hey. I have this great fun podcast with these 2 kooky guys who talk about movies and TV. We run the gamut. We have everything.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. We're all over the place.

Tony Maietta:
We're all over the place is a better way to put it.

Brad Shreve:
But in a good way. So do it right now before you forget.

Tony Maietta:
I think David Groh was a great actor. It was originally offered to Judd Hirsch from Taxi. Taxi obviously had not happened yet, but Judd Hirsch was originally offered the role of Joe. And you think about, okay, Judd Hirsch and Valerie Harper would have been fantastic together, and I I wonder if how much validity there is to the theory that David Groh just wasn't a strong enough actor for the series. What do you think?

Scott Fullerton:
I thought he did I thought he did well. I mean, I thought I I thought the actor was a guy was he the strong of Judd Hirsch? No. Judd Hirsch is one of my favorite actors and one of my favorite movies in Running on Empty. To me, at the time, I don't think there was enough characters they fleshed out. Right? You didn't have they started losing characters, and it was pretty much just Rhoda and Brenda. Right? And then they had the other growing Rhoda's business there, but it's like Yeah. He yeah. They brought in Myra Morganstein.

Scott Fullerton:
Everyone started leaving when when Nancy left and everyone. You really need to have people that you you're in love with and kind of flesh out more characters was one of the things that I saw.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. You kinda wonder why they just didn't stick with the core they had in the beginning. They brought in, Myra Morganstein. They brought in that Anne Mira character. You're like, who are these people? What's wrong with, you know, Brenda and Joe and Rhoda and Ida and Martin? I mean, that's there you go.

Brad Shreve:
Ida and Martin went off to do their own shows. Nancy Walker tried 2 two different series. She did.

Tony Maietta:
She did, which was bad timing.

Brad Shreve:
Harold Gould also tried to do his own show, which was one I never even heard of. I can't think what the name of it was.

Tony Maietta:
But they should not have let them go so soon, I think. They should not certainly not the same year that that Joe left. You know, David, Fred Silverman wanted to spin Valerie Harper off of Mary Tyler Moore the 1st year. He said to her, we wanna spin you off, and Valerie Harper was such a neophyte at TV, she thought she was being fired. I was like, what? I mean and he's like, no. We want you to we wanna put you in your own series. And she was like, oh, no. No.

Tony Maietta:
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. It was the 1st year.

Tony Maietta:
And then when they finally came back to her the 3rd year, and she's like, I don't know. And she went to Mary Tyler Moore, and Mary Tyler Moore said, you're a fool if you don't do it. And she said, what if I fail? And Mary said, well, you just come back to Minneapolis.

Tony Maietta:
Unfortunately, Mary was off the air by the time by that time, it really failed, so she couldn't go back to Minneapolis. But Valerie Harper also said that it was actually Nancy Walker who said who made it clear clear to her. When she went to Nancy Walker and said, they want me to do my own show. What do you think? And Nancy Walker said, Valerie, it's a job. Do it. And that kind of put it into perspective for Valerie Harper.

Brad Shreve:
For those that, for some reason, have never seen this or probably more forgot about it, which I don't know how you could still do that, I'm gonna do a super quick rundown.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, good.

Brad Shreve:
Rhoda started in 1974, ran for 5 seasons till 1978. As I said, I ignored the last two seasons. This is after she spun off from Mary Tyler Moore after 4 seasons. Now the premise of this show was Rhoda takes a trip to visit family in New York City and Brenda babysits this kid and Joe is his father who's divorced. And Rhoda meets him. They immediately fall in love. The first episode of the show is called Joe. And so Rhoda decides to stay.

Brad Shreve:
She's like, I'm not going back to Minneapolis. She calls Mary and says, send me my shit. And, it's kind of interesting in the beginning. I like it that Rhoda is unemployed. She's kind of almost thinks it was she thinks it was maybe a bad decision because she has no work and she's living with Brenda and she actually moves in with her parents and they're back with Brenda. And then Joe wants them to move in together and Rhoda says, no, I think I'd rather be married. You need to be married. That's where episode 8 comes in.

Brad Shreve:
And I actually don't mind that it was episode 8 because I, again, think it should have been a mad about you thing. I like this hip couple. I like that he had his own business. I like that Rhoda was a queer woman that actually started her own business and then they actually took that away and had her in the silly, was it a costume shop?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, they tried to give her a Lou Grant. They tried Jack Doyle. They tried to give her her own Lou Grant. It's just like No. Just awful. Just awful. She ain't Ed Asner.

Tony Maietta:
Nobody's Ed Asner. Yeah. You know, it's funny. You you the beginning the begin the first episodes are so good because she's so insecure. She's Rhoda. She's insecure, but she's funny and she's fighting against it and she's self deprecating. And then, yeah, I guess when she gets married, she's still she's still self deprecating. She's still unsure, you know.

Tony Maietta:
And I their their thinking was was that why you I don't know what they were thinking, basically. But they're they're taking her away from from her strengths. You know, her strength was she was Valerie Harper called her the victorious loser. You know? Didn't Valerie Harper said that really funny, very famous thing that a friend of hers said that Mary is the person that you wanna be, wrote as the person you probably are, and Phyllis is the person that you're afraid you'll become. And that's that's them. That's the crux of it. Rhoda is you, you know, the insecurities, the self deprecation. In that this first season is beautifully illustrated, and then and then it all goes away.

Tony Maietta:
She just gets sad.

Brad Shreve:
So, Scott, I I haven't prepared you for this, but do you wanna start by talking about what this episode is about? How it begins?

Scott Fullerton:
Well, I was I was excited to go back and revisit this one because I I had bits and pieces. I remember her running through the streets and everything, but it begins with, with I gotta

Tony Maietta:
Ida. Compare myself. Brenda? With Ida

Scott Fullerton:
as well. Of course, Ida in the beginning, you know, they've had the whole Jewish background, which they eventually got rid of. And so you have the Jewish mother Yeah. That has to have this big wedding. Right? So, of course, they start off with, they're gonna they're gonna have the small little wedding. Of course, Joe and Rhoda wanna have the small little intimate wedding, and then Ida comes in and says, well, why don't we come have dinner at my place first? And, of course, that goes into how many people come here? 79.

Scott Fullerton:
And then you get the Jewish guilt.

Scott Fullerton:
And I talked to your grandmother, and she's so excited for it. And just the whole premise of how it goes from the small little wedding into this huge ordeal, and I thought that was a great way to start it.

Tony Maietta:
It's a it's a brilliant brilliant scene, isn't it? I mean, just the way, the character of Ida manipulates them. When I called your grandmother at the home,

Tony Maietta:
she thought she'd never lived to see you get married. I mean, it's just the guilt.

Brad Shreve:
And the when she finally breaks Rhoda and Rose says, okay, we'll do it. And she goes, whatever you want. Whatever you want.

Tony Maietta:
I love it. She goes, I've invited a few people over. Oh, good, ma. Before or after the wedding? During.

Brad Shreve:
How do you give 79 people in a New York apartment?

Tony Maietta:
It's so it's such a great setup, but you're right. And what happened to that? What happened to that those wonderful scenes of Ida and her guilt? I it's just it's so rich in character and and I love it. You know, this show the funny thing about this episode is, and the funny thing I realized about this episode is, you know who really steals this episode is Phyllis. I mean, it's Cloris Leachman's episode. It's just I mean, she's the catalyst behind the mess that happens, and she has the best lines, the funniest lines, the funniest taste. How about when she says, when they go to pick her up at the airport and and Rhoda goes, I'm kind of surprised to see you here, Phyllis. And Phyllis goes, is it because I wasn't invited? And Rhoda goes, yeah, pretty much. And she goes, I your friendship has been very important to me, Rhoda.

Tony Maietta:
I wouldn't miss the opportunity to meet the man you finally hooked.

Scott Fullerton:
No. I agree with that. And I said just the the big yellow dress, just what she chooses to wear to the wedding is just she just she takes every bit of that and runs with that episode. So you're right. I think Phyllis is, is the star.

Brad Shreve:
You know, I mentioned on the Mary Tyler Moore episode how much I disliked Phyllis. I mean, I didn't even like disliking her. She just wasn't a fun character to me. She was just too damn annoying. But she was perfect in this episode. She was just there was a tad too much of Phyllis, but she was perfect. But there is one thing that I think they failed in. This was the last time that Rhoda and Phyllis were together until the final episode of Mary Tyler Moore.

Brad Shreve:
Is that right? That's correct.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Okay. So this would have been the perfect opportunity for Rhoda to finally get even with Phyllis. So when it was found out that Phyllis left Rhoda behind and and they were waiting for Rhoda to show up, Ida should have kicked her out of that apartment and said, get lost, and have that be the end of Phyllis as far as that episode goes. I would love to have seen that.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. But love was all around that day. Everybody was happy. She got married. Ida said, I'll kill you.

Scott Fullerton:
Yeah. I was gonna say that was Ida's big line there. It was it was that I'll kill you.

Brad Shreve:
Her just reactions when Phyllis admits it,

Tony Maietta:
and she's just

Brad Shreve:
frozen and

Tony Maietta:
We kinda left out the important plot point is is that Phyllis is feeling because she wasn't invited, she doesn't really have a job to do with this wedding. She's feeling left out, and she just wants to do something to help out. So Rhoda says, okay, since you rented a car, Phyllis, do you want to pick me up? Because she didn't like the idea of a limousine. Can you you want to pick me up and bring

Scott Fullerton:
me to the apartment for the wedding?

Tony Maietta:
And Phyllis forgets. So Rhoda is stuck in Manhattan while everybody is gathering in Queens for the wedding and Rhoda has to get to the Queens on the subway.

Brad Shreve:
As she's to Bronx.

Tony Maietta:
Into to the Bronx. I'm sorry. The Bronx. You're right. The Grand Concourse. So she has to get to the Bronx on the train, on the subway. And that is one of the most hysterically funny, memorable scenes ever. Rhoda running through New York, the streets of New York, again, on the subway, which, by the way, the guy who's waiting, she looks over at this guy and there's this guy standing next to her with a beard and kinda gives her the up up and down with that was James l Brooks, by the way.

Scott Fullerton:
Oh, I did not know that. That's kind of a fun fact.

Tony Maietta:
The creator. And so yes. So Rhoda has to ride the subway to get to her own wedding, wedding. And she doesn't remember when she says when she finally gets there, she goes, some guy tried to write graffiti on me. This dress is shot. I'll never wear it again.

Scott Fullerton:
And I don't remember. I re like I said, I remember these a little bit. I was just old enough to start remembering these when I watched them behind my parents, and it seemed like it went by so quick when I was a kid. I've been watching all the different segments. I mean, it was a pretty long little run to get to the apartment, and they have the parts down in the when she's sitting in the in this actual subway and deciding you go to the subway and then went to the main street. So it it was a longer longer vignette than I thought. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
It was pretty long. And, actually, here's something that jumped out at me. I am almost certain that on the Mary Tyler Moore Show, other than the opening credits, they never had an outdoor scene. There were

Tony Maietta:
a couple. There were a couple. Were there? Yeah. There were. There were a couple. There was one in the Best of Enemies, that episode we talked about, where they're walking down the street at the very end of the episode. So, yeah, there's a couple. Not a lot, though.

Tony Maietta:
There were not a lot. You're absolutely right.

Brad Shreve:
Nothing like this?

Tony Maietta:
Nothing like this. There was never an extended outdoor montage like that. No. Not at all. How about Georgia Engel? When she when she says, you must be so relieved, missus Morgenstern. Rhoda said if she wasn't married by the time you were 35, you'd take all your clothes off in Macy's winter.

Scott Fullerton:
And being from Ohio that you didn't remember anything about Ohio, I'm now personally offended. Yeah. Because her road trip I mean, being on a road trip myself, I love the revisiting the road trip. That was the worst. Miss Johnson, they gave me a piece of cheese.

Tony Maietta:
What did they say? What did they say in Illinois? Where are you hauling, honey? It was you know, here's the here's the interesting thing, though, is that when you really think about it, so the real stars of this episode of RODA are the pretty much the actors from the Mary Tyler Moore Show. So, you know, I don't think that's like a harbinger of what's gonna happen with the show, but it's kind of interesting that you have Phyllis, Lou has some great lines, and Georgette, who are really giving you the real laugh lines in this episode. And Brenda, and Ida not so much, but Rhoda are just kind of hanging back. It's kind of interesting.

Brad Shreve:
And Murray is always just kinda fades in the background.

Tony Maietta:
Murray fades in the background. When Murray gets Phyllis's luggage.

Scott Fullerton:
Carrie didn't have much to give except when she met Phyllis. I mean, that was her biggest comedy of moment, I think, of the entire time is when she had to take Phyllis down to get the car or whatever. And she said, oh, she's everything you said she was. But it's like, you just didn't really have a lot of of, like you said, big comedy moments.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. It's interesting. It's an interesting I mean, it's obviously it's brilliantly written, but it's interesting that they relied so much on the cast of the Mary Tyler Moore Show to carry this episode.

Brad Shreve:
And can we talk about Julie Kavner for a moment? I adore her. I've always I wish she didn't stop acting when she started doing the Simpsons. Could I I'm she either stopped right then or very soon after.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And And I know she's had a great career doing that, so more power to her. But I always loved her and everything that she was in. I do know after this series ended, she avoided playing frumpy roles because she was great at it in this.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. She was in, she was in Nora Ephron. When Nora Ephron's first movie is called This is My Life where she played a stand up comic. This is somewhat frumpy. I mean, it's kinda hard not to be your when you're Julie Kavner, you know, frumpy kinda comes with the territory.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, you know, she's not like Valerie Harper who was so stunningly beautiful, and you're like even when she was, you know, Rhoda on the editorial show, you're like, wow. You're a beautiful woman. But isn't it funny how as the series progressed, as Rhoda progressed, you had definitely had the feeling that who else was waiting for a spin off called Brenda? Because you just felt like it was gonna happen because it was just your Rhoda became Mary and Brenda became Rhoda, and you're just waiting for that spin off, which they probably would have married her often Right. And ruined it too.

Brad Shreve:
They They would marry you often and had them divorced in season 3 or 4.

Tony Maietta:
But how about Lorenzo Music? Well The Carlton, the doorman. I mean another

Brad Shreve:
you mean Garfield? And what's that? You mean Garfield?

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Exactly. You mean yes. Yes. Yes. Another brilliant character that was kind of he wasn't supposed to originally do it, but he filled in during the first read through, and everybody fell on the floor laughing. Like, why don't you just do it, Lorenzo? Because Lorenzo was a writer on the show. He's one of the producers.

Tony Maietta:
He's one of the writers on this episode. And another one who was I mean, so they had these brilliant characters, and they just let them all go. You know? They just let them all go.

Scott Fullerton:
I thought that Carlton was probably the best part of a lot of those episodes. I mean, that comic timing was just perfect when they go down. I I loved him. I thought he did an amazing job. And so I knew even in this episode, I mean, when she calls down to be on the lookout for, Phyllis in the car, it's like, you know, a competent doorman's gonna I'll have a cab. I'll get somewhere here for you. Carlton just, like, doesn't have a clue what he's supposed to be doing. He's just

Tony Maietta:
how about when he asks, can I kiss the bride? And she says, Carlton, there's a buck in it for you if you keep your hands off the bride.

Brad Shreve:
Is this the episode where he says there's a strange lady coming up to the apartment?

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Moyler, I knew it. You're moving. Yeah. It's so funny. His voice was just perfect.

Tony Maietta:
He accost Phyllis in the in the lobby. And see, yeah, it's it's having another another brilliant brilliant characterization on this show. So on this episode though, you know, I guess the thing that always that always bothers me, and it's interesting to see what you guys think about this. So do you think she's they should not have gotten married at all? I mean, how do you have this series about Rhoda who historically was, you know, man hungry Rhoda. Are you just going to have her be continually man hungry on her own series? Or do you think that the wedding was the natural progression? You just or do you think they just did it too soon? What are your thoughts on that?

Scott Fullerton:
At the time, I I understood and I thought it was going in that direction. And I understood like I said, I was very kid, so I didn't understand TV. Now looking back at it this past week when watching it, I think they showed in the episode why it was a mistake when you went back and looked at her and Mary's dating life on the Mary Tyler Moore Show and how funny those experiences were. And I think if she had the the dating experience of Minneapolis is so different from the character she'll meet dating in New York, that could have been such an interesting minefield to do with all those bad dates that she had.

Tony Maietta:
So rich.

Scott Fullerton:
Even if they held off the wedding, if she'd meet Joe right away, that's fine, or just the little incidents that happened in her life dating because everything could happen would happen to Rhoda. I think that would have been a funnier way to play it and be able to play it out longer, personally.

Brad Shreve:
She could have been the female Seinfeld. Yeah.

Scott Fullerton:
Very much so.

Tony Maietta:
That's a good point.

Brad Shreve:
I personally liked that she got married because Mary was the single woman, and this is kind of a very big change for Rhoda. I liked the idea. I liked that she was married. I liked her with Joe. I liked Joe. I think he was a good actor. Was he as good as Judd Hirsch? No. But I also can't picture Judd Hirsch in that role in any way, but he he would have played it much differently.

Brad Shreve:
I'm sure.

Tony Maietta:
Well, you know, ironically, you can you can see what he would be like because he he guest starred on on 2 episodes in the 4th season. He played this guy named Mike, that Rhoda goes out with. I think he was the first guy that she that she dates after her divorce is final. So you can kind of see, you've got a taste of what he would have been maybe been like as Joe, granted it's a different character, but they go they go much more toe to toe in, in the episode, so I don't know. The good thing about David Groh is and I think he I think he's supposed to be Italian, actually. I Valerie Harper said Gerardi, but his name was Gerard, not Gerardi. But I know he wasn't Jewish because remember the episode where she introduces I don't know if you guys saw this. There's an episode, like, 2 episodes or 3 episodes before when Martin mentions to Ida that she always vacuums when she's upset, and then Rhoda brings Joe over to meet Ida, and, they leave and Ida starts vacuuming, so she's clearly upset that he's not Jewish.

Tony Maietta:
So I think maybe I think maybe Judd Hirsch would have been too on the spot with Valerie Harper, but I think it probably would have it would have certainly been more dynamic. It also probably would have stayed Jewish. Yes. Much more Jewish. I mean, they have a Christmas episode, I think, in the is it the the third the second season, there's a Christmas episode. New version of Hanukkah. It's it's Christmas. Now there are plenty of Jews who, you know, don't celebrate Hanukkah, who celebrate Christmas.

Tony Maietta:
But it's just so funny how, as you said, Scott, you know, the Jewish the guilt, the Jewish mother from Nancy Walker in the first scene just totally kinda goes out the window once they get married. You know, and they didn't wanna do a Bridget Loves Bernie thing with, you know, once Catholic. They didn't wanna weigh on that, but it's still a factor that they lost. Yeah. Right.

Scott Fullerton:
So after this fabulous wedding And something you could have played off of that. They could have played off of.

Tony Maietta:
and a half of good marriage. And then out of the

Tony Maietta:
blue, Joe says he's not happy and he leaves. And then it's just a very depressing show after that. It's it's so hard for me to it's it's acted very well. I gotta tell you, Valerie Harper is heartbreaking in a lot of those episodes. But then you're just like, but this is a I'm all for touching moments in comedy, don't get me wrong. But there's touching and then there's depressing. And it's just it's depressing to spend time with this character who's so unhappy and with her life.

Tony Maietta:
and it doesn't get better. That's the thing. There's the joy is completely gone.

Brad Shreve:
It doesn't get better and was too much change at one time. As you said, the parents moved away. And I gotta say, I love Harold Gould. I've always loved him. So I was really I I liked him very much on this show. I thought he played off Ida really well.

Tony Maietta:
They were a great couple.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. They were a great couple. But, you know, Joe left. They were gone. And then Rhoda switches apartments with Ron Silver. Yeah. And they turn his apartment into this ridiculous swinging bachelor's pad, kinda just so cartoonish. It just I could go on about how much I made it to show after that.

Brad Shreve:
No. It wasn't Johnny Bravo. I wasn't that the

Tony Maietta:
And the the singer, was his name Johnny Desmond? I think his name was Johnny Desmond. I can't remember what the it wasn't Johnny Bravo. No.

Scott Fullerton:
Johnny Bravo was Brady Bunch. But, yeah, I think I think you're right. It was dead man. Yeah. But I'm not a 100 percent.

Brad Shreve:
Well, they also had wrote his dates as being real buffoons. I mean, Joe was a hot guy who was intelligent and had a nice business. And then she had these losers that were cartoon characters. It just did not work.

Tony Maietta:
I know. It's it's it's unfortunate that they just seem to lose their way, and then they tried to get find their way back, and they just couldn't. And they just couldn't. And the series just just petered out.

Scott Fullerton:
And such an aspiration character, both in Mary Tyler Moore and here. Right? I mean, she was this single girl and had these foibles, but she had she she's still with someone that you kinda wanted to be. Then after the divorce, it's like there wasn't anything to be aspirational about, I think. They lost a little bit of that, and that's what you had all these depressive things and nothing really to to admire as much anymore. The shop was okay when they brought in, Morganstein, but it's, it wasn't Myrna Morganstein.

Scott Fullerton:
That's `exactly right. And it plays out, but it just didn't bring the aspirational aspect there anymore.

Brad Shreve:
It was good that they brought in a friend for Rhoda other than Brenda, because Mary had her friends until Rhoda and Phyllis moved away. So I think it was a good idea. They just brought in the wrong person. The people they brought in, in general, were just not good choices. No.

Tony Maietta:
They they never were, and I I don't understand why. I remember remember Nick Lobo? Remember he was the Mhmm. So there's an accordion at the wedding, and then, it must have thought, oh, that's a great character to date Brenda. And so they bring in Richard Masher, and he becomes Nick Lobo, And that character, I'm like, that character was fun, but but okay. It's still not it's still not

Brad Shreve:
a great character. He would have been a funny one episode

Tony Maietta:
character. Yes. Exactly. And that's what they they tried to take these char and the singer's name was Johnny Venture. And, the the singer on the show that they brought in, the the, you know, the the lounge singer, Johnny Venture. Another one episode character, and they would take these characters and try to stretch them out into into make them, you know, series characters. And other than Ron Silver, who I really like and his character changed. He wasn't so obnoxious as the series as his episodes went on.

Tony Maietta:
He actually became a friend to them, which I thought was a great idea. They were all so obnoxious.

Brad Shreve:
I gotta point something out though. We have sat here and talked most of this episode about how bad the show became. And I think we need to emphasize, it's because it was so beloved, the first week. It was a great show. It was outstanding. So I I think what's being expressed here is our heartbreak over what was just an outstanding show. I think that's why we're stuck into what happened to it.

Tony Maietta:
Because it's a mystery. I mean and just like millions of people who wrote into CBS, you know, we're upset too 50 years later. Why did you destroy this show? And you're right. The first two season there's a fabulous episode. I think it's the first episode, the second season with with, or Carlton's mother.

Scott Fullerton:
Mhmm.

Tony Maietta:
Have you guys have you guys seen that episode? Carlton got fired. Rhoda gets Carlton fired because Carlton lets in, burglars, and they clean out Roda and Joe complete totally wiped them out. So Roda gets caught and fired and his mother shows up and knocks on the door and who is it but it's Ruth Gordon and it's such a great episode. You have any spare meat? I mean, you know again, you're relying on a co star For your show which isn't great but what

Scott Fullerton:
You need to give the show with props. I mean, as much as we're trying to talk about different aspects, I mean, it was the number one its its 2nd most wedding only to corporal Klinger, and that's because that was MASH's thing. Right? And it was that was such a small part of it. I was like, yeah.

Tony Maietta:
There's some trivia. There's some trivia for you. Yeah. Well, the very first the pilot episode, Joe, that you talked about earlier was the very it set a record by being the very first television series ever to have a number one premiere, ever. You know, for a number one rating for its premiere episode. So it was immediately out of the gate. And the transition was really really long like gangs.

Brad Shreve:
Because you had, you know, Rhoda and Mary in the very early, they were calling each other back and forth. A few days before the wedding episode, they were talking about, on the Mary Tyler Moore episode, going to Ray Rhoda's wedding. It was it was really well done, the transition.

Tony Maietta:
It was. It was. And it made it made so much sense. I think originally when they were pitching the pilot, they wanted to they didn't wanna move her back to New York. I can't remember exactly where they wanted to move Rhoda to, and they're like, no. It that's so silly. They thought that the reason that Rhoda the character of Rhoda worked was because it was a fish out of water with her in Minneapolis. But, I mean, it makes so much sense for her to go back to New York. That makes perfect sense.

Brad Shreve:
New York, this is your last chance.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly. And what a great and what a great opening the 1st year too with that whole little monologue about my name is Robert Morgan Stewart, you know, it's just Valerie Harper She's such a such such a gifted actress, and we talked a little bit about this on Mary Tyler Moore. You know, she works so hard to make her accent her dialect impeccable, and she works so hard to ground Rhoda in this reality. That worked so well

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Until it didn't. Until it didn't.

Brad Shreve:
I am amazed, Tony, that you have not brought somebody up because you brought up Ruth Gordon as being a great guest.

Tony Maietta:
I know. I know. But you know why? Because it depresses me.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, Vivian?

Tony Maietta:
Because I don't think it worked. Vivian Vance? I don't think it worked. Vivian Vance.

Brad Shreve:
It didn't How many episodes was she on? And,

Tony Maietta:
she just did 2.

Brad Shreve:
2 and then she got too sick?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, she well, yeah, her health wasn't great, but I don't it wasn't a good character. It wasn't a defined character. And who knows who her husband was? Her husband was David White AKA Larry Tate from Bewitched.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I don't remember I just remember being excited that she was on.

Tony Maietta:
It's kind of was as great to see her, you know, in a role that wasn't Viv, in a role that wasn't Ethel Mertz or Viv. But I don't I don't I think she was, yeah, I think her health was I think there were some problems with the filming too. She wasn't getting all of her lines. Because you if you notice, if you watch the episode, a lot of her a lot of her lines are close ups, which is a big indication that they're cuts. You know? That that okay. Now we've gotta get her lines, so we're gonna move the camera. So they're done after the studio audience left, which is always a really big clue that somebody's not getting their lines. Because why else would you cut to a close-up on someone's on one line? I think that there were just too many problems with her health.

Tony Maietta:
I but I the character was so ill defined anyway. I mean, you know, I don't really think it it was.

Brad Shreve:
I barely remember. She just was the nice elderly neighbor, wasn't she, or something like that?

Tony Maietta:
She was a no. She was a working woman. She wrote she wrote commercials, TV commercials. And she and she meets Rhoda in the laundry room. And Rhoda and Joe go out with her and her husband for dinner, and Ida comes over to babysit, and Ida immediately gets jealous because she's like, why are you hanging out with this old lady? I'm your mother. You should hang out with me. You know? So that was the point of the episode. And And then she was in one more episode, and I think that was

Scott Fullerton:
I forgot about those. I was surprised people didn't take Anne Meara more, but they really didn't like her character either. And I'm a huge Anne Meara fan.

Tony Maietta:
I am too. Yeah. It was just that there was I don't know. There was some Sally, she played a flight attendant. I think she just got lost in the shuffle.

Brad Shreve:
Jerry Stiller played her ex husbandon one episode.

Tony Maietta:
He did. He did.

Brad Shreve:
God, they were great together.

Scott Fullerton:
Right.

Tony Maietta:
I think by this time, they were just, like, throwing their line out trying to catch a fish anywhere. You know? Which we're going back to talking about how the show went downhill as opposed to celebrating how great it was the first two years. And it was.

Brad Shreve:
I tried to bring it back, and we just went right back again.

Tony Maietta:
You know, when I was a kid, one of my favorite books was this big picture book. It was called big picture book. It was called the great TV sitcom book. And there was a big there was an article there was a chapter or a section on Rhoda and we never forget what the guy said his last line was, you know the best way to watch rhoda Is on the mary tellermore show and sad but true

Scott Fullerton:
That's true

Brad Shreve:
That was voted her best, but I like the change in the beginning.

Scott Fullerton:
And we haven't really talked about Harold Gould at all in the episode, and there's a little part downstairs when she gets there. I mean, Harold Gould is such an amazing actor in his self. I mean, the stage work is so impressive.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. And he was in The Sting. Remember him in he was in the I mean, he's so accomplished. You know, he was in The Sting. He was on he played Miles forever on Goulden Girls. That's a great scene between the 2 of them when he says it's good to see you. I mean, that's just really touching. Oh, I know what I wanna talk about.

Tony Maietta:
My favorite part of the I have my one of my very favorite parts of the episode is when he goes he leaves her in the elevator and he runs to get her corsage and she's they're playing the wedding march. So she walks down the aisle and that neighbor comes out

Scott Fullerton:
with her garbage and says, what's new?

Tony Maietta:
Not much. Same here. It's so New York.

Brad Shreve:
It's so New York. 1970 New York.

Scott Fullerton:
That was a great bit. A great bit.

Tony Maietta:
where was this stuff 2 years later? Where was the where were these brilliant little bits 2 years later?

Brad Shreve:
So yeah. I probably thought what most people thought when he walked into the apartment and she was in the elevator that the door was gonna close and she goes downstairs. That's what I was waiting to.

Scott Fullerton:
There was lots of moments when Nancy, is trying to stall for time, introduces Mary again for the 3rd time, the grandmother would have reported that.

Tony Maietta:
Did you see grandmother Morgan Stern sitting there in in in the wedding? Yeah. I love the fact that they brought Lou and Marie in. I thought that was that could have been tricky, but they built it up in the Mary Tyler Moore like Brad said, you know, they let it in for the episode of the Mary Tyler Moore Show. I think it's called the new Sue Ann. Maybe it's not new Sue Ann. It's another episode of the Mary Tyler Moore Show where they take her to the airport. So they've set it up on the Mary Tyler Moore Show that Lou and Murray are taking her to the airport, and then they end up in New York, which is a which is a wonderful, it just makes sense. It's it's very it does what you said that you don't like you didn't like about Lou Grant, Brad, was that it acknowledges a history.

Tony Maietta:
It acknowledges a past. You know, these people just didn't appear. Hello. You have a history. These people were in your life. They didn't just disappear. And I think Mary Tyler Moore Mary Tyler Moore did a guest, shot at the end of this first season. I think it's called the long comes Mary.

Tony Maietta:
And it's when Rhoda says, Mary, I gotta be honest with you. You've you've looked you look like you put on some weight. And Mary says, like, yeah. I think I gained about £10. And Rhoda goes, leave it to you, Mary, to gain weight in your erogenous zones. Because she's she's very very curvy. And I think she made 4 episodes total appearance on the on Rhoda. And, you know, Rhoda came back for the last episode, so they did acknowledge their past, and they did acknowledge their their history, which kinda went out the window after the Mary Tyler Moore Show went off the air.

Scott Fullerton:
Do you know know, Tony, since this was filmed in front of a live audience, did they do the entire hour long scene in front of the same audience, in in one take, or did they do, like, 2 parts? Do you know that part at all?

Brad Shreve:
No. They did it. They did it all

Tony Maietta:
it was all one filming. What's interesting, though, is they filmed the scenes, obviously, that took place on the streets of Manhattan were filmed in the summer before the show premiered. So can you imagine you're in Manhattan? Because the one the one scene she's at Verdi Square, Needle Park, which is 72nd Street in Broadway. You can see, Grey's Papaya right across the street. And, she's, you know, before she gets on the subway. So people are walking by going, who's that woman in a wedding? It's Valerie Harper. You know what I mean? So the show had not premiered yet when they did these when they filmed this sequence in the summertime. So people who were seeing Valerie Harper in a wedding dress had no clue what was going on.

Tony Maietta:
And then I'm sure once the show premiered, they're like, I saw that. I was there. They're like Hazel's. Like Hazel's friend. Know

Scott Fullerton:
that. That's amazing.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. They had it all done.

Brad Shreve:
Really obvious to me was, you know, they showed all the the scenes of Rhoda trying to get to the apartment, to her parents' apartment. And then when she comes into the front door of the apartment building, the audience goes They

Tony Maietta:
went nuts.

Brad Shreve:
So they obviously they they stopped the scene. They obviously watched all that on a screen. Exactly.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly.

Brad Shreve:
And then she bust in and they were just going crazy. Exactly. I it was so obvious to me and I I thought was fun.

Tony Maietta:
That's that's yeah. That's that's yeah. Such a smart thing to do. And the yeah. The the audience reaction, you're like, oh, they've just been watching her whole thing. Obviously, without the cuts, you know, when they cut back to the wedding and they cut back to the wedding. So they just watch this whole thing of her on the streets in New York.

Tony Maietta:
Screen goes black, and she runs through the door on the set, and she's live. It's just yeah. It's magical. It really is.

Brad Shreve:
So let's be if it sounds like we hated this show, we did not, Watch at least the first three seasons and definitely watch this episode. It's just fun.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, yeah. It's on YouTube. It's so easy to watch.

Brad Shreve:
Emphasize. It sounds like we hated the show. This show was great

Tony Maietta:
in the beginning. Well, no. We didn't hate this. We hate what happened to you. I think we're Which shows our love. Yes, exactly. I think we are very fervent fans of the character of Rhoda Morgenstern, and we even though we were all, you know, pretty much toddlers or less when it originally aired, As fans of this show, you wanted it to work because you love her so much, and it's disappointing that it doesn't. But this episode, absolutely.

Tony Maietta:
One of the greatest episodes in TV history.

Scott Fullerton:
Hands Usually watched. I love the end credits where they showed extra part of her kind of going through through to New York. It's the first time they ever did one of the extra credit scenes, which is amazing. And I love that.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Yeah. So before

Brad Shreve:
we wrap up, Scott, do you wanna tell us a little bit more about, your shows?

Scott Fullerton:
I do. I've been doing podcast now for 8 years. I do primarily interviews with great people like Tony, people from entertainment, foodies, music, books, and advocacy for LGBTQ community and straight allies. And I just really enjoy getting people's stories out there, so it's kinda fun. I've been doing it for 8 years now and can't wait to talk about your guys' stories when you come in August to Palm Spring.

Brad Shreve:
And I think it's safe to say wherever you're listening to this show, you will find Scott's show.

Scott Fullerton:
There you go.

Brad Shreve:
And I'll put the link in the show notes.

Tony Maietta:
Thank you, Scott.

Scott Fullerton:
Well, thank you for inviting me. I'm so excited to be the 1st guest, especially for an episode that I love and a television show that I love. So amazing. I think you guys are doing such great work. I'm excited to see what you guys have coming down the pike because, this is my this is my era. I love the shows and everything you guys are talking about.

Tony Maietta:
Well, we we appreciate it. We've got a Spotify playlist that we that we put up for if the music's available for songs that I can't sing, although you just heard at the top of the show, you heard Brad's rendition of Rhoda's theme.

Brad Shreve:
We'll probably be pulled off pulled off and spotted.

Tony Maietta:
I I don't think you can top that, with special lyrics by me written on the slide. So thank you so much Scott for joining us. Thank you Brad. And Brad, let's not say goodbye. Let's just say au revoir.

Brad Shreve:
No. Let's say goodbye.