Merry Christmas, “Auntie Mame!” (1958)

Tony Maietta:
Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve:
And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to going Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
Tony. This is the milestone I am so excited to be getting started recording our Christmas episode.

Tony Maietta:
Wait, what do you. Wait a minute. What do you mean we're not. We're not recording our Christmas episode today? No, no, no.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. We planned this ahead of time. This is our Christmas episode.

Tony Maietta:
No, no, no, no, no. Your email clearly said we were going to record the Christmas episode on December 1st. And this is November 31st, Brad. And everybody knows. 30 days, half September, April, June, and my God, it is our Christmas episode. Had to get that in there. I had to get. That was actually at Morville.

Tony Maietta:
That was. That was Lucy. That wasn't Roz Russell. Roz Russell goes, darling, I'm your auntie, mate.

Brad Shreve:
I love it when we're so off the cuff.

Tony Maietta:
Lucy goes, my God, not rehearsed at all. If I was really gonna do it like Lucy, I'd say, my God, I'm your Annie Mame. Vera, give me a scotch. But yes, this is our Christmas episode. Very excited. And the film is indeed Auntie Mame from Warner Brothers in 1958. Very excited about that.

Brad Shreve:
I watched this film for the third time this week, this morning.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, wow.

Brad Shreve:
And let me tell you, I really had to watch it this morning because, as you know, I went to Hawaii, right? And I watched Auntie Mame on the flight there, and I realized I bought it like six months ago. I watched this film. So anyway, I watched the film on the flight there and then I watched the film on the flight back. And as you know, one of my souvenirs in Hawaii was Covid. So. So the past week I have tried to entertain myself, which, as you know, is difficult to do. You're falling asleep every hour. So I chose to try and entertain myself with things I don't care about.

Brad Shreve:
Which is reaction videos on YouTube, which I'm surprised to find there are many more than. Many more good ones than I expected. Though there are a lot of bad ones. I don't know if you're familiar with these reaction videos.

Tony Maietta:
I've seen one or two.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
I'll tell you, I think it would be fun to do if I wanted to take on the nightmare of video editing, but you can forget that right now. So anyway, I was watching reaction videos and I watched Mystery Science Theater 3000.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, God, I loved Mystery Science Theater.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, absolutely. And so I kind of had a Tucker. I was gonna say a Tucker Carlson Tucker.

Tony Maietta:
Don't say that.

Brad Shreve:
I kind of had a Forrest Tucker marathon because one of the movies I watched was the same year as Auntie Mame 1958. One of the worst movies of all time. They say it ranks up close to Plan nine From Outer Space.

Tony Maietta:
Really?

Brad Shreve:
The Crawling Eye. Awful. Awful.

Tony Maietta:
Wow.

Brad Shreve:
Also known as the Trollenberg Terror. Now, it was awful.

Tony Maietta:
Sounds like it.

Brad Shreve:
But I also watched Monster A Go Go, which I will say I laughed harder than Auntie Mame, though it is certainly not at the same caliber.

Tony Maietta:
Not the same kind of laughs.

Brad Shreve:
No, not the same kind of laughs.

Tony Maietta:
It is.

Brad Shreve:
If you want a good laugh, watch Monster A Go Go. It is priceless. But anyway, so I had to wash my brain again this morning with Auntie Mame.

Tony Maietta:
With Auntie Mame .

Brad Shreve:
Again. That would be Even talk, because I'm still sick. Auntie Mame .

Tony Maietta:
That would be Mame, the Auntie Mame .

Brad Shreve:
I will tell you this. I have done very little research. Okay, so you're going to. I can talk about the movie, but most of the.

Tony Maietta:
I'm flying.

Brad Shreve:
Most of the historical stuff is on you today.

Tony Maietta:
Well, that's the way.

Brad Shreve:
I mean, that's your job anyway.

Tony Maietta:
That's my. That's my what? What do the kids say? That's my thing. Kids don't say that's my thing. That's what they said in my generation. No, I'm excited. You know, I think it's funny. Is that a lot of people. I wonder if a lot of people are surprised that our Christmas movie is Auntie Mame .

Tony Maietta:
It's not the family stone. It's not a Christmas story. And some people be like, auntie Maine's a Christmas movie. But for me and I. And for a lot of people out there, it's a spiritual Christmas movie because of the joy. And I've said before, this, to me, is one of the most joyous films ever made. Now there is A Christmas scene in Auntie Mame. So it kind of qualifies.

Tony Maietta:
But, for example, Michael, you know, my friend Michael, it's his Christmas movie. But there's also in Los Angeles, Outfest, which is the wonderful film festival, which kind of sort of in existence, but not really anymore, did an annual. And they're doing again this year. I'm going to miss it. They do an annual viewing of Auntie Mame at the Egyptian Theater. And it's so wonderful.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, wow.

Tony Maietta:
Because can you imagine, you know, a theater packed full of. Yes. Mostly gay men. Hello. Who've already had a couple cocktails. I mean, the minute that film goes up, I mean, it's just a riot. So it's. This is a very special movie for me in all those respects, but mostly because it's so joyous.

Tony Maietta:
I find it such a joyous film experience.

Brad Shreve:
Well, when you said we should do this for our Christmas episode, I thought, it's not really a Christmas episode. And now that I've watched it, I'm like, is it really a Christmas episode? Well, I'll say technically no. But like you said, it's a fun movie, so who cares gives a shit?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it's fun.

Brad Shreve:
It's. It's fun and festive, just like Christmas.

Tony Maietta:
The holidays are about joy. For me, this movie is pure, 100% joy, and I'm very excited to be talking about it. Now, you said you've seen it three times. I obviously have seen it about 3 million times.

Brad Shreve:
Well, I saw it three times this week.

Tony Maietta:
This week. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, I've saw it. I actually watched it again because I think it's important to watch it again. I don't want to go completely on my memory, and I. One of the wonderful things I love about this movie, to me now, it's a long movie, but it never feels long to me. I don't know why that is. I just feel like when I'm watching it, we're going on this ride, and I'm going from one thing to the next to the next.

Tony Maietta:
And I know very soon she's gonna be. Lose all her money, and the next thing you know, she's gonna be with Beauregard, and the next thing you know, she's gonna be with Mr. Obama. It's just like one joyous ride for me. Next thing, Gloria Upson's gonna. I can't tell you how pleased I am to make her acquaintance. You know, she's gonna. She's gonna drop in.

Tony Maietta:
I just. To me, it just goes. It flies so I never think of it as a chore ever to watch this movie. How did you feel watching it these three times?

Brad Shreve:
Let me give you the description of this film. I have two descriptions of this film. And the one that fits depend. Depends on my mood. So let me give you the. And really, I almost feel them at exactly the same time. In fact, I will tell you I feel them at exactly the same time. So my first description of this movie is, is Patrick Dennis is a young boy who in 1928, his father dies.

Brad Shreve:
His father is a conservative. He leaves Patrick to stay with his eccentric Auntie Mame and has a banker who is there to make sure that Patrick is raised in a conservative manner. Auntie Mame abandons the young boy who grows up to be a conservative. And she somehow feels like she has no bearing on this issue. And that's how the story ends. That is my negative take on the story. My positive take on the story is she is the best thing that ever happened to this kid. He shows up at her doorstep and she protects him the best she can from the man at the Knickerbocker Bank.

Brad Shreve:
And unfortunately, she has to get married. But she is in love. And so he is raised away from her. But she comes back in time to save him from going down the wrong route at the end as well. So she saves him really twice in this film?

Tony Maietta:
Yes, she does.

Brad Shreve:
If I look at that in the.

Tony Maietta:
Positive way, yes, she does.

Brad Shreve:
I am always bothered by the fact that she did abandon this young man and I will never look past that.

Tony Maietta:
But what when she got married, but he was in boarding school. That's what she said. You will see each other on holidays and Christmas time. Besides which, I happen to be in love, she said.

Brad Shreve:
But none of the things at the end would have happened had she been there. But anyway, it's forgivable because it's still a hell of a lot of fun. And my God, here's. Here's how I love this film. I love this film from the beginning to when Mame ends the Fox Hunt and then fast forward to when she visits the Upsons. Yeah, that's a great scene from the Upsons. Till the end is. I could just watch that.

Tony Maietta:
But then you miss. You miss the wonderful Agnes Gooch. What about the. What about the Gooch?

Brad Shreve:
Peggy Cass.

Tony Maietta:
Throw some furs on the Gooch.

Brad Shreve:
You know, when I was growing up, all I knew her from was Password and Match Game. I never really knew she was an actress.

Tony Maietta:
The incredible Peggy Cass. Yes, I think that's what that was. My. The Very first time I saw Auntie Ma'am, I went, she acts. Because basically this was. I mean, she did other things too. She did. She was a theater actress.

Tony Maietta:
She got this part. She won a Tony Award for it. She was nominated for an Oscar for the film version. This truly is, I mean, talk about, you know, a career defining role. This really is Peggy Cass's career defining role. And to tell the truth, yes, it just takes one, ladies and gentlemen. Every actor out there is looking for his Agnes Gooch. That's all you need.

Tony Maietta:
Yep. And speaking of career defining roles, Rosalind Russell's career defining role is too. I mean, and Rosalind Russell, you know, just a little bit of background about Roz Russell. Rosalind Russell was one of the biggest. Was one of the biggest stars of classic Hollywood. I mean, we're talking from the mid-30s on, and it's in some incredibly wonderful classic films. The women, his Girl Friday, you know, she's my sister Eileen. So.

Tony Maietta:
But this is Roz Russell's truly her career defining role. In fact, she got very proprietary about this role. She didn't want. She wanted them to close the play when she was leaving to go do the movie. And they're like, well, no, we can make a lot of money if we get actresses in here. And she agreed to it because she was also a producer. She had some money in this play. So she knew, okay, yes, I have to do this.

Tony Maietta:
So Greer Garson came in, a bunch of actresses came in and did it. But she was very proprietary about this role because it really is the career capper for Roz Russell. It, everybody. I think when you think of Auntie Mame, you think of Rosalind Russell, don't you?

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I can't imagine not thinking of her. When I think of. When I think of Rosalind Russell, I think of Auntie Mame and vice versa, right?

Tony Maietta:
No, exactly. It's, it's. And here's one of the most, to me tragic now, not Judy Garland level tragic as in injustices, but pretty damn, pretty damn close is the fact that, yes, she was nominated for an Academy Award for best Actress and she lost. She lost to Susan Hayward in I Want to Live Now. Have you ever seen I Want to Live? I Want to Live?

Brad Shreve:
I don't think so.

Tony Maietta:
Susan Hayward plays a murderess on Death Row, Barbara Graham, based on a real person. And Susan Hayward was a wonderful actress. I'm not taking, I'm not throwing any shade at Susan Hayward. She gave some wonderful performances, but her performance, when you see it today, is so over the top is so dramatic. And you look at Russell in Auntie Mame and her performance, also very theatrical, but timeless. Timeless. So I feel like, you know, Russell never won a competitive Oscar. She was nominated four times.

Tony Maietta:
She won a humanitarian Oscar in 73. But wow. If any. If any role, if any actress deserved an Oscar for a performance, it's Annie Mame. It's mythic now. I mean, she's iconic as Mame, and that's really unfortunate that she didn't win for that.

Brad Shreve:
It really is. And the. The movie you mentioned, what's the other movie?

Tony Maietta:
I Want to Live.

Brad Shreve:
That sounds like good, campy fun. Is it?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it's campy fun because Susan Hayward is so over the top. I mean, it makes her performance in Valley of the Dolls look like she's doing a kitchen sink drama. I mean, she's so over there. I mean, I'm not going to do Susan Hayward. I'm not going to go into I Want to Live. It's a good movie, but in compared with Russell's iconic performance as Mame Dennis. No, no, no, no, no, no. Big mistake.

Brad Shreve:
And that's what I was gonna say. It sounds like fun. Like, can't be fun, but it doesn't sound like quality material like this.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, this. Well, this is. Yeah, this is timeless. This is timeless. And as Brad said, you know, Auntie Mame is based on a book by Patrick Dennis, which is a nom de plume. You know, I love saying that a nom de plume for Edward sounds like.

Brad Shreve:
A Warner Brothers character.

Tony Maietta:
It does. Sounds like Pet Le Pew, a nom de plume for Edward Everett Tanner. And he wrote this book in 1955, and it was a sensation. It was a publishing sensation, although, like, they thought it would be difficult to dramatize because kind of like Breakfast at Tiffany's. And I'm reaching back to our very first episode we talked about Breakfast at Tiffany's. The book is episodic, like the play, like the movie. There's not a, you know, a constant through plot. It's episodic.

Tony Maietta:
It's this happened and this happened and then this happened series of skits. It really is. It really is. And blackout skits, by the way. So it was tried by many authors, including, including Patrick Dennis himself. And they could not crack this nut. It was purchased by producers Robert Fryer and Lawrence Carr, and finally they brought it to writers Jerome Lawrence and Robert E. Lee, who were also famous for another play at this time currently running called Inherit the Wind.

Tony Maietta:
And they cracked the nut. They came up with the structure for this story to make it into a viable production, viable play. And they originally wanted Shirley Booth. Do you know who Shirley Booth.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, yes, I know Shirley Booth.

Tony Maietta:
Come back, Little Sheba. Hi, Keith. I have dream about my little dog Sheba. I love Shirley Booth, but I. And Shirley Booth was a wonderfully gifted actress. But Friar and Carr had a friend named Rosalind Russell. And Russell had just won a Tony Award for her for Wonderful Town, which was a Broadway musical. And she was at a real crossroads in her career because she was a big star, as I said, in the 30s and the 40s.

Tony Maietta:
But she was getting older, and she was facing that, okay, what do I do now? How am I going to support this career? So Wonderful Town came along and kind of gave her a new career as a Broadway actress. She had started on Broadway, and she's going back to Broadway as a musical. Wonderful Town's a musical. And so that's why Rosalind Russell got involved in the play. It took her some convincing, but she agreed to do it. And as I said, she was actually a producer of the play. And the play, needless to say, was a tremendous hit. It ran for 639 performances.

Tony Maietta:
Russell and Cass were both nominated for Tony Awards. Cas won. And so when it was time to transfer this to film, there was no question, really, at the end of the day that Russell was going to do it. Although, you know, in order for her to do it, she had to agree to let the play continue. That was another reason why she let the play continue, because that way she could go to Hollywood and do the film role. And also so did Peggy Cass, who plays Gooch, who won a Tony Award, as I said, repeated her role. And Jan Hanslick, who plays young Patrick, repeated his role, too. Now, here's the thing, and I don't know if this struck you, Brad.

Tony Maietta:
He's a little too old in the movie to be young Patrick. And this is one of the. One of the things I have with the movie. Russell, God bless Russell, she felt loyalty to this young kid. You know, she really wanted him to have this opportunity to repeat his Broadway role. But think about it. When he filmed the role, I mean, when they first did the play, he was three years younger, you know, and he's at that age where now he's on the cusp of adolescence.

Brad Shreve:
And three years is huge at that age.

Tony Maietta:
It's huge when you're, you know, 8, 9, 10, 10, 11, 12. And so he's just a little too old in the film, I think, to play Patrick. And One of the very few, very few superior things about the musical movie Mame, which we're not going to talk about. We'll touch on, but we're not going to do that. No Lucy bashing. Not going to do it. But one of the. One of the superior things about the musical is the young actor playing young Patrick in the musical name is the correct age.

Tony Maietta:
He's much younger. So you can see why, like when he's making the martini. You know, when he's making the martini for Mr. Babcock, it's just kind of. It would be much funnier and much more precocious if it was a younger child making the martini than this pre pubescent kid. So what do you think about that? Did you get that kind of like, icky feeling from him?

Brad Shreve:
Not at all. I. When they kept referring to the age, I'm like, that kid is way too old based on the ages that they're giving. But I never thought of him in the role as too old in any way. I thought he was. I thought he was great.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I mean, he's not.

Brad Shreve:
I. I was like, where I had to look him up because, first of all, I was curious if his name is Jan or Jan, because I've known both in my life and I wanted to know where his career took him. With, as you probably know, that is. The one bit of trivia I have is that. That he chose to leave.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Acting and became an attorney. I believe it is something of that nature. But no, I thought he was perfect for the role. I thought he was great.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yes, it's a minor.

Brad Shreve:
I did feel like I was watching the kid on stage. He's a stage actor for sure.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, well.

Brad Shreve:
But I'm not gonna hold that against him.

Tony Maietta:
He's. It's a. It's a minor point. It's a minor point. I'm.

Brad Shreve:
It is a minor.

Tony Maietta:
Totally nitpicking here. I'm totally picking here. You know, I also, Hey, I love Coral Brown. I think Coral Brown is brilliant as Vera, but it's kind of hard to top Bea Arthur as Vera. I mean, she's. You know, you can see why Bea Arthur won a Tony Award for playing Vera in the musical version. She is wonderful. She's magnificent as Vera, so.

Tony Maietta:
But I love Coral Brown, too. But when you say theatrical. This film is theatrical on purpose. Russell said when she first went to the set, the soundstage, to see the set of Mame's Apartment, she said she fell backwards because it's so big. And Russell believed comedy should Be small. Comedy should be intimate. And there's this huge staircase that she actually broke her ankle coming down the first time, you know, because she gallops down those stairs. Russell actually broke her ankle and they had to stop production for a few weeks while it healed.

Tony Maietta:
But it's tremendous. But that's the point. The point is, is that Mame is theatrical. The character is theatrical. So the costumes are theatrical, the sets are theatrical. This film was directed by Morton DaCosta, who also directed the play. He had never directed a film before, and he basically took the play and put it on stage.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, yeah, very clearly.

Tony Maietta:
Even the lighting, you know, the screen doesn't fade to black. That all the fades are done with lighting like it was on stage and that was on purpose. People always ask about that. Why are they doing that kind of theatrical lighting as if it's on stage? Because Mame is on stage. Mame's life is on a stage, and that's the point of it.

Brad Shreve:
And I understood the reasoning for doing that because the rest of the film clearly is. Is theatrical. You know, this. The exterior sets. Well, actually, no, I was gonna say the. The Fox Hunt was clearly outdoors, but. Yes, like the mountain climbing. They didn't even try to make it look like.

Brad Shreve:
No, but I was bothered by that, that whole lighting scene change because it kept throwing me out of the film.

Tony Maietta:
Interesting.

Brad Shreve:
I'm like, oh, they're trying to. I was really getting into the story and then, boom. I'm like, oh, they wanted me to think it was a play. And so I understand it. I don't know necessarily that I think it was the right decision, but, you know, I don't make movies so.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it's, you know, it's a choice. I can see what DaCosta was doing because, as I said, because the characters are so over the top, you kind of have to have a setting that's over the top. It would be difficult to put these over the top characters in a realistic setting, which is one of the reasons why. One of the many reasons why the musical does not work is because you need the theatricality, the support of the theatricality of this. Of this character. Think about it. Think about Mame's. You know, the shifts in time and maid are indicated by the change of decor in Mame's apartment.

Brad Shreve:
I love that.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, it's so funny. But they obviously did not do that on stage. But they do it. They do it in the film. The costumes by Ori Kelly, one of the great costume designers in classic Hollywood. He. That's Reflected in his costumes. Well, as well, along with Mame's hair color.

Tony Maietta:
Mame's hair color did not change throughout the play. Maybe once or twice. But you know, Rosalind Russell's hair color changes depending upon what her mood is, depending on what the mode of life is. So it's all this theatrical, all this theatricality which just kind of supports the theatricality of this character.

Brad Shreve:
I'm actually surprised they didn't do the set changes in. In the play. Her new decorations. I didn't think they would be severe, but I thought they would probably do some really quick things. It would be very show what they did in the movie because I. It was great in the film.

Tony Maietta:
I'm sure there are some productions which attempt it, but it would be. I mean, this was already the most expensive non musical ever on Broadway when they put this on here. So ironically, people think it's a musical. Yeah. When. When Friar Carr and then Harris to sell the musical, when they decided we want to make this a musical. So we were trying to. They were promoting.

Tony Maietta:
They were looking for backers for the musical version of Auntie Mame. People would say to them, what is this a remake? Are you doing it again? Feels and looks like a musical because it looks. It feels like a musical, but it's not, you know. So I think that's so interesting that everybody thinks it's a musical and it's not a musical. It's designed like a musical, you know, I think, I think because it's so big, because it's so theatrical, because it's so removed. I like the way it is. I understand people's criticisms of the theatricality of it, but I think it just. It fits the film so well.

Tony Maietta:
So when Mame. So when they decided to make Mame a film and it was purchased by Warner Brothers and they brought three cast members from the Broadway. They had, as we said before, Jan Hadzlick, Peggy kasm, Rosalind Russell, OH4 and Yuki Shimamoto who plays Ito also was on the Broadway, was in the Broadway production. There were. They didn't bring over the Broadway Vera though. They were looking for a Vera. And I had a question for you. One of your favorite gals screen tested for the role of Vera Charles in this film and she obviously didn't get it.

Tony Maietta:
Do you want to. I know it's way out there, but do you want to hazard a guess as to who that possibly could have been?

Brad Shreve:
Well, see, I don't know if you're saying one of my favorite gals in a sarcastic tone. Or a real tone.

Tony Maietta:
No, you like her. You like her a lot. So do I. I love her.

Brad Shreve:
I'm just going to toss it out there and it probably not. It. It doesn't even fit. That's the only person that comes to mind is Audrey and she's way too young.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, way too young.

Brad Shreve:
So I can't think of anybody.

Tony Maietta:
No. How about. Here's a little clue for you. She has a Lucy connection.

Brad Shreve:
Vivian.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, Vivian Vance. Vivian Vance. Vivian Vance tested for the role of Vera. But isn't it kind of weird? Vivian Vance tested for the role of Vera in Auntie Mame . And then Lucy plays Mame in the musical version. But that's not the only connection that Lucy has to Auntie Mame. This is interesting too. So at the wrap party of the film, there was a visitor on the set.

Tony Maietta:
One visitor came to the set. I'm sure there are a lot, but one visitor in particular was at the set. It was notably conspicuous on the set. And who do you suppose that was?

Brad Shreve:
I'm going to guess Lucille Ball.

Tony Maietta:
It was Lucille Ball. And she. At the wrap party, she allegedly went up to Roz and said, roz, you're the only person I've ever been jealous of in my life. If there is one part I would give my soul to do, it's this one. A little shading there of misfortunes to come.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, she kind of did give her soul. But we won't go there.

Tony Maietta:
We won't go there. We won't go there we won't go there at all. Brad, I want to stop for just a minute and I just. I want to wish our fabulous listeners a wonderful holiday. And I want to thank them for listening this past year to our first season of Going Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
Me too. I'm right with you there, Tony. And I want to remind the listener that during our hiatus, we will still be posting in our social media accounts, Facebook, Instagram. If I add any others, you can find out. Follow us on goinghollywoodpodcast.com and you'll stay up to date on what's going on. And they'll know when something else is happening. Will they, Tony?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah. And they can also go back and re listen to one of our 30 plus episodes that we recorded our first year. I know I do that a lot.

Brad Shreve:
I'm sure you do. In fact, I know you do.

Tony Maietta:
Because.

Brad Shreve:
You like to give the little critiques which are good. But in the meantime, keep your eyes open for the announcement of Going Hollywood Season two, which is coming in March.

Tony Maietta:
And that would be. That's going to be the best Christmas present of all. So happy holidays, everyone.

Brad Shreve:
God bless us, everyone.

Tony Maietta:
I can't believe you did that. So I want to talk a little bit about how the film is, how the film came about. Obviously, based on the play, the screenplay of Auntie Mame was by Betty Comden and Adolph Green, not Lawrence and Lee. And they added some additional scenes, most of which ended up being cut. So it's like, okay, well, why'd you have them in the first place? But, you know, they wanted to adapt. They wanted to put their stamp on it. One of the. Primarily during the job hunting portion of the film, you know, when Mame loses all her money and she does.

Tony Maietta:
She goes to do all these jobs, one of which is the iconic switchboard scene with Whitakem Gutterman, Applewhite Biberman in Black. I did it. I said it.

Brad Shreve:
You did very well. I sat there in awe watching that scene.

Tony Maietta:
That is a genius scene. It points to what one of Russell's great talents was, and that's language. We talked about this with Maggie Smith and how Maggie Smith could caress language and milk laughs out of syllables, out of single words and syllables. Same thing with Russell. Russell has that same talent. Russell's voice goes up and down in the register if she wants to emphasize a comic moment. And that's what's so genius about Rosalind Russell. You know, when you think about it, some of her most iconic films, like the Women and certainly His Girl Friday, she's very verbal, she's very fl.

Tony Maietta:
So that's a wonderful thing. One of Russell's great gifts and one of the funniest things is that whole switchboards, which is, you know, which is Whitakem Gutterman, Applewhite, Biberman and Black. I did it twice. And she calls him Mr. Bibb. I just love that. So anyway, one of the scenes that was cut was she was actually. She was a door to door salesman and she was selling pressure cookers, which would have been a very funny, funny scene, but, you know, you can imagine the pressure cooker exploded and she was gone.

Tony Maietta:
But they realized they didn't need this, so they just kept the two that were in the play, which is the switchboard and also where she ends up at Macy's selling roller skates. Where is the roller skate lady?

Brad Shreve:
Okay, so let me take a guess here as far as scenes that were added in the film. And you can tell me if I'm wrong. I'm kind of assuming all the stuff away with Forrest Tucker were added to the film. They happened off stage.

Tony Maietta:
No, that was in the play. That was it. That was in the play. But, you know, the brilliant thing was the whole. Obviously the whole fox hunt when she's on the horse, you're all the characters come forward. It's like the ascot gavotte scene in My Fair Lady. The obviously the fox hunt is happening out in the audience and you just have the characters and they do this in the play. Another theatrical thing.

Tony Maietta:
They all come forward to the proscenium, if you will. And we get that play by play about what's happening. Mother, Jefferson Davis, she's passing the fox, you know, so that's. That's a total leftover from the play. So, yeah, they opened it out in the film. But you know, that poor fox. Fox is a corpse. That fox is dead.

Tony Maietta:
You watch. Watch Patrick holding it. That fox does not move. And they get rid of it as quickly as they can because it's obviously this really, really bad stuffed animal, which I love. Obviously in the film they have. Or maybe not obviously, but in the film they had to soften down some of the language. Now, even though they softened down some of the language that's on that was on the play, there's still. Have you noticed, did you notice there's still a lot of swearing For a code era film, there's a lot of swearing in Auntie Mame.

Tony Maietta:
Did you notice that?

Brad Shreve:
I noticed there is a lot of swearing. And I noticed there is a lot of not subtle at all innuendo and some blatant things that I thought, wow, for 1958, this is a lot. And something tells me that the book and the play had even more.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, yeah. Well, you know, the most. This is what they did. Okay. I think they're so smart. And this is what they did. The most famous one is Mame's tagline. You know, Annie, Mame's motto is life's a banquet and most poor sons of bitches are starving to death.

Tony Maietta:
Well, they couldn't say sons of bitches in 1958, so they softened it to and most poor suckers are starving to death. Which I actually like better than sons.

Brad Shreve:
I like it better, too.

Tony Maietta:
I think it's. I think sons of bitches is too harsh.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
And naturally, when they made the movie, when they made the musical, Lucy says, most poor sons of bitches are starving to death. And it just isn't as elegant. There's an elegant. So I think by changing that, they allowed these other things to come through the script. Like and it always seems to be Vera. Vera's the one. What the hell have you got back there, reindeer? Get rid of those damn cowbells. So I was really struck by that.

Tony Maietta:
I was really struck at how much swearing there was for this film in 1958.

Brad Shreve:
Well, and I must ask because every time I watch this film I wonder if in the book or, and, or the play, when Patrick is going over his list of words that he heard when he says heterosexual, does he say homosexual in the play?

Tony Maietta:
No, he says heterosexual.

Brad Shreve:
Heterosexual works because it's still like a sexual.

Tony Maietta:
He says heterosexual. But I believe, yes, he does say heterosexual in the play. But you know what else is in that, that party scene which always makes me laugh. Do you see the lesbians? Do you see the, the two older women who are dressed in men's suits?

Brad Shreve:
Oh, yes, yes. Well, I'm sure just like me, you. I, Well, I immediately thought of Breakfast at Tiffany's because very similar type of artsy, avant garde crazy group of people there. And yes, I did notice the lesbians. I loved that scene.

Tony Maietta:
It's great, It's a great. Well, there's a lot of real life people represented in that scene. There's a scene where Mame talks about a conductor. He has real sheep motif, live airplanes when he's conducting a symphony. And that was based on a real life Soviet composer named. And I hope I get this right, Arseny. I knew I was going to do it. Arseny Avaramov.

Tony Maietta:
And this. He was a Soviet composer who staged a 25th anniversary celebration of the October Revolution. And on stage he included flotillas, cannons, locomotives, hydroplanes, factory sirens, bells, foghorns and a brass band. So a lot of those people in that party scene are based on real people. She says, Edna, where have you been? Or Edna, and it's Edna Ferber. So it's, it's, it's. This is one of the fun things that, that Lawrence and Lee and later Comden and Green left in the film are these real life allusions or call outs which, which you realize Mame is a very, you know, she's, she's a, she's a socialite. So she's got some high class friends, you know, who all disappear once the depression happens.

Tony Maietta:
And also the play that she and Vera did when they were trooping Choo Chin Girl was a real play. And that, that, that whole, that whole thing, if you were standing in front of me, I would have kicked you in the. Vera.

Brad Shreve:
Oh yeah. Okay. Do you think if that was written today and done today that they would have gotten away with having the children and the teachers all naked together.

Tony Maietta:
Well, that's interesting. That's very interesting. I mean, what a lot of this stuff, you know, that's.

Brad Shreve:
It's perfect for the film that's straight.

Tony Maietta:
Out of Patrick Dennis book. In fact, when they're playing fish families, and when I read. I read Auntie Mame, I must have been 12 or 13 when I first read the film, Auntie Mame. And to me, the most scandalous thing, and obviously this did not make it into the play or the movie, is not only that when they're playing fish families, they're also calling out, spread the sperm. Spread the sperm. And whenever.

Brad Shreve:
I think it wasn't necessary.

Tony Maietta:
No. And whenever I think of the book, Auntie Mame, I think of spread the sperm. Spread the sperm. It wasn't needed. It wasn't needed. I mean, just. You get all that from Rosalind Russell's reactions and just from. We were playing.

Tony Maietta:
We were playing fish families and they. We did what gentlemen fish do. Well, that's.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, that was perfect.

Tony Maietta:
That spread the spread.

Brad Shreve:
I filled in the blanks.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, you did. All right. I want to talk about one of. I know one of your favorite characters. I think one of everybody's favorite characters. Besides Gooch and besides Mame, do you know who does. I want to talk about Gloria. I can't tell you how pleased I am to make her acquaintance, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
I adore her.

Tony Maietta:
Isn't that. Isn't that a great characterization?

Brad Shreve:
Oh, my Lord, I love her.

Tony Maietta:
So Joanna Barnes, who plays the brilliant. Who brilliantly plays Gloria Upson, she didn't speak like that in real life. That was a. Let's hope not. She said that she got the inspiration when she was a kid. Her whole family would say, talk like you have a hot potato in your mouth. So imagine if you have a hot potato in your mouth and you're talking like this. That's where she got the characterization.

Tony Maietta:
And that characterization is mythic. I mean, she also did a character like that in the Parent Trap. She was in the film the Parent Trap, and she did the similar character of that talking with a hot potato in your mouth. But that's become so iconic that people don't realize. Kind of like Jane Hudson, Baby Jane. Joanna Barnes created that. And it was so. It was so genius that it's become kind of like one of these characters that everybody imitates.

Tony Maietta:
I mean. I mean, people are. You see drag queens doing Gloria Upson all the time. Books are so decorative. We have a Place in Fort Lauderdale. I mean, it's just. And of course, the ups ands. The parents, it.

Tony Maietta:
Ups and downs. I know there's no sugar in a Claude Upson daiquiri. I mean, these characters are so funny. And it's one of the reasons why this film. Film brings me such a joy, because of course, they all get their comeuppance in the end via mame, but they're just so deliciously, delightfully insane. And they just. They make this film a delight to watch.

Brad Shreve:
I love this film, but I am always getting tired at a certain point. And then the ups and show up, and I am full of energy. I'm lighting up, and I'm loving every second from that point forward. I just.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it's one.

Brad Shreve:
I love them. I love her.

Tony Maietta:
I.

Brad Shreve:
You know, the whole. I'm sure everybody's experienced somebody telling a story that just goes nowhere. And the ping pong. Henry stopped on the ping pong ball.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it was ghastly. Well, it was just ghastly. Makes a good story, though. And the closet was locked. It is such an incredibly funny scene. And they play it so. She plays it so. Wow.

Tony Maietta:
You could practically write a book about what happened to me, which gives a. Ms. Burnside. You could practically write a book about what happened to me. It's just a genius moment. It's. It's. It's a perfect.

Tony Maietta:
To me, it's almost a perfect film. And the way these. The way these things wrap up at the end. And of course, you have the end with. With, you know, Patrick's son now being let off by any name. She's the Pied Piper, you know, it's true. It's such a wonderful. I get.

Tony Maietta:
I get chills talking about it. It's such a wonderful, warm, happy film. And this is why it's my Christmas movie of choice.

Brad Shreve:
It's a good choice. And I will say that at the end, when Patrick's son goes off with her, I'm like, there's her redemption. She's gonna treat. I'm gonna call her. I'm gonna say her grandson, because that's basically what he is. She's gonna treat her grandson the way I would have liked her to spend all that time with Patrick and make sure he doesn't go down that wrong snooty road.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly, exactly. She gets him, you know, with. Married off to a girl with braces on her brains. An arryon from Darien. But it is such a heartwarming story about this boy who could have had a very quiet Sad life. And she opened doors for him. Doors you never dreamed existed. So it was.

Tony Maietta:
It was a tremendous, tremendous hit, obviously. Do you want to talk a little bit about how this movie performed when it was released? No, I'll tell you how it was performing.

Brad Shreve:
I was not feeling well. I had very little.

Tony Maietta:
You have a Covid. Excuse. You have a Covid.

Brad Shreve:
What? I looked up. I barely remember. I will say this. I will say this.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
Monster. Go go. Got 5% on Rotten Tomatoes, whereas Auntie Mame got 93% audience score, 88% as well.

Tony Maietta:
That's high praise indeed. So Auntie Mame was a tremendous success. It was nominated for six Oscars, including film actress, as we said, supporting actress, art direction, cinematography, color, and editing. It did not win a single Oscar, which is another huge, huge travesty as far as I'm concerned. Academy, you got a lot to make up for for that, I'm telling you right now. But here is the victory. It was the second highest grossing film of 1958, right behind South Pacific. It made $8 million on a budget of $2.2 million.

Tony Maietta:
So $8 million is about $86 million today. So that's. That's a tremendous hit. It obviously revitalized Rosalind Russell's film career. So much so that, okay, this is a kind of a funny story. So I think besides Auntie Mame, Russell's probably also best known for her later career for playing Rose in Gypsy, which many theatrical, you know, many tried and true theater people think is a travesty that Ethel Merman was not able to recreate her Broadway role. Yes, well, the reason that Rosalind Russell did that was because Rosalind's husband, Frederick Bresson, was Rosalind Russell's husband's name. He was a producer.

Tony Maietta:
He was also known as. Russell called him the wizard of Roz because he would get these properties for her. But he was also known in theatrical circles primarily by Ethel Merman as the Lizard of Roz, because he was the one behind Russell filming these movies that other actresses had made famous on stage, like Gypsy. She also did a movie called A Majority of One, which was done by an actress named Gertrude Berg, and Russell did the film version. So Russell had her. Had her paws on these films. She kind of gets a bad rap for that. I personally love her in Gypsy.

Tony Maietta:
I think she's wonderful in Gypsy. Yes, it would have been great to have Merman, but there you go. But of course, that leads us to one of the biggest injustices of all. If we're on this about Theater actresses not being able to recreate their roles on film. It happened all the time. Julie Andrews with My Fair lady, the most tragic of all, Angela Lansbury and Mame. So we need to talk a little bit about what happened after Auntie Mame. And I'm not going to go in depth into it, but I think it's kind of interesting and how Lucy got this part, which by the way, according to Russell in her autobiography, Friar Carr and now Harris.

Tony Maietta:
Harris had joined them, they were now Friar Carr and Harris produced the musical version, came to her first to do the musical version of Mame after she'd already done Auntie Mame. And according to Russell, Russell's like, no, thank you, been there, done that, moving on. But I've never read that anywhere else. And secondly, Russell also claimed in her autobiography that she co wrote the play Auntie Mame . She did. She claimed she was also. She was a writer, though. Ros Russell was a writer.

Tony Maietta:
That's one of the really interesting things about Rosalind Russell.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, really?

Tony Maietta:
When she was. She wrote screenplays under a pseudonym and a pseudonym was C.A. mcKnight and she wrote two screenplays so she could write, but she did not. She might have added to Auntie Mame, but she did not, you know, she didn't write half of the book, half of the play. So anyway, because when the time came, Music, the musical Mame starring Angela Lansbury opened in 1966 and was a tremendous success. It was again huge, like hello Dolly. I mean, this is one of these great lady roles like Rose and Gypsy, like Dolly Levi and hello Dolly. Mame's right up there.

Tony Maietta:
So Mame was a tremendous success. Yeah, Angela Lansbury is, became, almost became a Broadway legend for her performance as Mame. And it's a wonderful musical, wonderful songs. But when it came time to make it as a film, we're back to the same problem. You know, Angela Lansbury was not a name. They wanted a name. And Lucy clearly, as we said before, Lucy had her sights on this role since 1958. And in Lucy's mind, it was going to be her crowning achievement as an actress was to have to make this musical version of this part.

Tony Maietta:
Have you ever seen the musical Mame, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, long ago. And not long ago enough.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it's so sad because, yes, she was about 20 years too old for the part. But besides that, that's not what the problem is. The problem with Lucy in Mame is, is that it's not. The character and the Persona do not mix. Lucy was a clown. Lucy was a baggy pants clown. Mame is a grand dame. Mame is Rosalind Russell.

Tony Maietta:
You know, Rosalind Russell could do baggy pants comedy, but there's a sophistication with Rosalind Russell which is just part of her. Lucy doesn't have that.

Brad Shreve:
No, I clearly remember. It just did not work.

Tony Maietta:
People think, oh, Lucy, perfect, funny. She'd be great in Mame. Well, it's a different kind of funny. And so when Lucy tries to be grand and tries to be sophisticated, it just doesn't come off. The best parts in the film Maim, the film musical Maim, are the parts where she can clown. You know, when she's on the roller skates and she's kind of. Once one foot kind of rolling down, she gets, you know, she gets out of control on the roller skates. She's doing Lucy stuff.

Tony Maietta:
That's when Mame works. And interestingly, nobody had the balls at this point in Lucille Ball's career to tell her, this is not right for you. Except Desi Arnaz. Desi Arnaz was the only one who said, honey, this is not right for you. Don't do this. She didn't listen to him. And, yeah, it was a disaster. Lucy never really got over it.

Tony Maietta:
It was a huge public failure. So that's so sad, because it's a wonderful. It's a wonderful. The musical is wonderful. You know, they've always talking about redoing the musical. Cher was talking about doing it at one point. Barbra Streisand was talking about doing it at one point. It would be wonderful to see.

Tony Maietta:
To see somebody actually do it. But, you know, you also have the cast recording to listen to, and you have the ultimate version of it with Roz Russell in Auntie Mame.

Brad Shreve:
Well, if Bedknobs and Broomsticks had done better, Angela Lansbury would been more of a household name rather than a stage name. And she therefore could have been.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, you know, I'm. I love Bedknobs and Broomsticks. Oh, what a fun movie. And I thank God she did it, because you get to see her there. She's preserved on film singing. And she had a glorious singing voice, by the way. I mean, she was. It was a natural singing voice.

Tony Maietta:
So, yeah, it's one of the saddest things. But you know what? Murder she wrote ran 20 gazillion years.

Brad Shreve:
And I still love her in the original Manchurian Candidate.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, and she's. She was a brilliant actress. I mean, Dame Angela Lansbury got her. Had the last word. I Think with. With that career. But another great dame, great dame, Rosalind Russell. The part is hers.

Tony Maietta:
The part will always be hers as far as I'm concerned. And it's just such a wonderful, joyous experience. Is there anything else we want to say about our Christmas episode, Brad? About Auntie Mame?

Brad Shreve:
No, I think that. I think you picked well. In fact, I know you picked well because I'm sitting here, I was beating my brains in trying to think of, okay, what are we going to do? And all the traditional ones were coming to my head. And I'm like, I don't know if I want to do those. We see them every year. Or the. Or talk to death. And this, this was perfect.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I think so. I think so. And I just, you know, for anybody who's, like, really Auntie Mame . I tell you what, if you haven't seen in a while, it's the Christmas season. Go put it on. Go, go stream it. It's available everywhere. I think it's even on YouTube.

Tony Maietta:
I didn't say that, but I think it's even on YouTube. Go watch it. I guarantee you it. You will have the most joy. You will have a true. The true meaning of this holiday. You will have a joyous, joyous experience.

Brad Shreve:
The holidays are for smiling. And this movie will make you smile.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, it will. It will. And you can't get a better. A better testimonial than that, Brad. So you know, it's our Christmas. Our Christmas episode is over. And I think we gotta say it. But I don't want to say it, Brad.

Tony Maietta:
So, let's not say goodbye. Let's say happy holidays, everybody.

Brad Shreve:
Happy Holidays