Entering “Grey Gardens”, Part Two: The Marble Faun

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They would sort of debate at 11 o'clock at night.

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It would go on until 3 in the morning.

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They'd wake up and continue.

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I'd say, no, I've got to go to sleep.

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Bye.

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And I'd go downstairs, sleep on, my arm be cut, but they would just pick.

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I think they loved it.

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I think it was their way of staying alive.

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I mean it, staying alive every night.

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Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

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And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

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We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age.

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We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

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And, of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

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As does your self-delusion.

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Welcome to Going Hollywood.

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Yeah.

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I like Jerry.

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Oh, is that Jerry, for goodness sakes?

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Jerry, you're Aquarius, aren't?

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you.

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That's what I saw when I met you, jerry, remember I said the marble faun

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It was terrible, terrible but, tragedy connected with the marble form.

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And I called.

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I haven't been able to find it.

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If you run across it, I'd like to read it.

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It's very deep.

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I don't know whether you Well, I guess you're up to it.

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They used to have it on all the I think it was on the high school reading list All the books.

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Brad, I am so excited for this episode because we teased a little bit before in the last episode, because we have a very, very, one more very special guest.

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And you know I said in the last episode that we talked about Grey Gardens.

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That when you first mentioned, I'm like I don't know, is this movie we really want to talk about?

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It's a documentary and stuff and I'm so glad that I listened to it and listened to you, because the story is just fascinating.

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It was a great show and it's a great movie.

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It is.

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And you know, as entertaining, quote unquote as my stories are, I'm only getting them secondhand from the man who tells them the best.

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So I'm thrilled to have my good friend, my partner and the dearest man in the entire world, mr Jerry Torrey, the Marble Fan himself.

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Thank you for inviting me.

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Tony Brad, thank you so much for inviting me.

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I'm excited to be here and to share Mrs Beale and Edie's Grey Gardens with you.

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Tell me, how well do I have this?

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Oh, it's the Marble Fawn Did.

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I get it right.

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Were you doing a ghost or were you trying to do Little Edie?

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Okay, that was the ghost of Little Edie.

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No Edie would be a little more rambunctious, tony, you have Mrs Edie down.

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I'm not saying he's not good, brad, I like it.

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It's more along the lines of For goodness sake, the marble fawn is here and here he is.

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I can do Marvin the Martian.

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Beyond that I can't do any impressions.

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I'm not going to do Marvin right now, but that's actually that's the first time you met Edie right?

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She asked you immediately she referred to you, jerry, immediately as the marble faun correct.

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After the door opened, screen door latch came open and she extended her hand to my hair and said the marble faun is here, loud.

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Yes, handed her hand to my hair and said the marble fawn is here, loud.

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That was the first name she gave to me and the only name she ever used.

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Yeah, I said.

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Of course I don't know who that is, but if you need any help with the property, you know Brad and Tony.

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I was so thrilled to be able to speak those few sentences then, so she didn't ask me to leave and I was more than enthralled by the setting.

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That mansion was right in front of me and so was the vestibule.

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It was a wonderful thing to experience.

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So, jerry, I'm going to ask you a question.

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I hate to do it because I know you have been asked this a thousand times and we're going to get into the details of how did a kid from Brooklyn end up at Grey Gardens.

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But the question everybody wants to know, and I know you've answered it how accurate were they portrayed in the documentary?

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How were they portrayed in the documentary?

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Was it accurate?

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Did we see the real people?

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They were candid.

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That's them.

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That's who Mrs Beale and Edie were.

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There's a little edge to Edie, who prepared emotionally and with her clothes and clothing dressing.

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She prepared every night for the next day's filming.

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But she was very aware that the Maisels were coming around again to do more filming.

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It was her debut.

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But Mrs Beale was completely 100% Mrs Edith Bouvier Beale then, and she didn't pretend to be anyone, anything else, anything, any person else.

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Edie, she brought it up a few notches for the camera.

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She loved it.

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She perfumed.

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But I swear afterwards, you know, she would say what am I going to wear tomorrow?

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Prepare the clothes, hang them on the banister.

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No, brad, they were pretty fairly authentic before and after the film.

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You know the dictates, the literature.

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She read the mannerisms.

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You know the dictates, the literature, she read the mannerisms.

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Edie God bless her was so pent up that when she had the chance to be seen and heard the cameras were rolling, she just jumped all over them and was flirtatious, curious.

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Edie ran the emotional gamut every three hours.

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I could say.

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So, jerry, let's go back a bit and for people who have read our book the Marble Fawn of Grey Gardens about your life, this will not be news.

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But for people who haven't, tell us a little bit about, tell Brad and myself a little bit about your background and where you were born and how you ended up at this wonderfully chaotic world of Mrs Beale and Edie's Well, I was, of course, born in Brooklyn.

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Where else could I possibly have been born?

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Oh, I thought you were Sweden with that accent.

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No, I'm Brooklyn boy here and I took off from my parents' house shortly after maybe 73.

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I was leaving, I left home and how did I wind up at Grey Gardens and Mrs Beale's property?

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Through faith, only faith, and God.

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He directed me there.

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I know it Because it had been so isolated and I knew that the moment I stepped foot on the porch that it was a really rare place to be, not only because of the setting but because no one had obviously been there or moved around the porch.

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I took off from Brooklyn.

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That's where I was born.

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I was a teenager and I worked as an assistant gardener for Mr Gerald Geddes.

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I'll tell you something I didn't know what to make of the mansion when I first saw it.

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It still fascinates me.

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I'm glad to be alive to share it.

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You know it's the most interesting time of my life.

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That's pretty much where it started, from Brooklyn.

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So just to give people the timeline of your journey.

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So you know, you were obviously, as you said, born in Brooklyn, grew up in Brooklyn and you ran away from home basically when you were a young.

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I could no longer make sense of them.

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And they were confusing to me.

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I'll be brief.

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It was a sexual exploitation at a very young age and making it even more complicated was the fact that my father, who was very heavy handed and I believe he was because it was rumored in the family that I was being groomed, so to speak, by a relative and they didn't like it because I was gay then and didn't even know it.

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But my father resented the whole episodes and he kept on beating me, hitting me, and one afternoon he put his hands around my shoulders and he said Jerry, don't let anyone ever take advantage or mistreat you.

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And I looked at him and said well, I didn't say it.

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But I said you're the only person that's really been doing that, hitting me and mistreating me, besides the relative who's been assaulting me physically, sexually.

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After that, brad and Tony, I got so confused After he put his arm around me and said those things.

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It was like a week later I just took off, I just ran with what I had on my back and I lived in the city subway system for a while.

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I didn't know where to go, I didn't even know my social security number, I just had to leave and I survived in Manhattan by being a messenger.

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Um, it's all.

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Many aliens took me to this fire.

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Okay, many, many things occurred, right okay, so you're living in the New York subway, which sounds horrendous.

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How did you get from there to the Hamptons?

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Well, relatives of mine lived in Lake Ronkonkoma.

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My, my uncle, very dear uncle godfather, knew that I was under a lot of stress at home and would often say to me come with me for the weekend and you can stay in the country with us.

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That's what he was there.

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He was building a beautiful stone country house, which is still there, and what he was doing was he was helping himself to cobblestones from the streets of Brooklyn.

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They were renovating the city's subway system, water lines and sewer systems, but excavating the streets he helped himself to a hell of a lot of cobblestones with tar on them, and all this.

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I would go with him on the weekends to remove the tar and to make them flat so he could incorporate them into the house which he built.

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It's still standing.

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He was a remarkable farmer, mason, gardener, everything.

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He was very good at all the things.

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That's how I got introduced to eastern Long Island.

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That was halfway out there.

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Through him I finished high school and lived sparingly with relatives, but a family invited me to live with them.

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His name was Kalbecker and from there I finished high school.

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From that location I went to St Jim High School, you know, and from there I finished high school.

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From that location I went to St Jim High School.

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It was from that point, brad Tony, that they had a house in Amagansett, long Island.

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That's one town east of Amagansett, east of East Hampton Town, just before Montauk.

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So I went out he said to me you know, I have a house out in the country for the summer.

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You're welcome to come there, but you have to get a job.

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And it's a cottage on the bay Gardner's Bay, most charming place, natural Gardner's Bay is all kinds of naturally beautiful.

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So I went out there and sure enough there was an article in the east hampton star.

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They're looking for an assistant gardener on a property on lily pond lane.

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That's all they wrote and it was a phone number.

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I called it.

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That went for the interview.

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I was hired as an assistant gardener to a fellow who was a gardener but most of the time was intoxicated so he couldn't do his gardening.

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It was really very simple I kept twigs out of the pool and raked a lawn of leaves and kept the trim trimmed and it was a joy.

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I had a $100 a week salary and I lived over the garage in a splendid little room and right below the garage room was the kitchen, three refrigerators.

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I had it made fellas.

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It was $100 a week room and board and I was living on Lily Pond Lane.

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I mean there was palatial properties.

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This was at the house of Gerald Geddes.

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This is the industrialist Gerald Geddes.

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Yeah, yes, and you worked for Mr Geddes.

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And what was the one stricture that Mr Geddes told you was essential in order for you to work on his yard, on his gardens?

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Mr Geddes was a lot of fun, and he would say to me and it always reminded me of this look, son, I don't want to see you on my property because if I do, you're fired.

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You understand me?

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Yes, I do.

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So you're supposed to work.

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You're supposed to work but not be seen working.

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When you would hear him, wouldn't you dive for the cover of a bush or run behind a tree so he wouldn't see you?

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I had a pattern.

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And in the middle of the lawn that I was cutting on the riding lawnmower was a beautiful beech tree, purple leaves, and when I hear the gravel in the driveway and his limousine coming in, I would just scatter over to the tree, pull it open.

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Scatter over to the tree, pull it open with a.

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I had a clothesline holding the branch so I could pull open the branch and duck underneath the tree on the rowing lawnmower.

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Okay, one day I didn't make it and he opened the window and he pointed his finger condescendingly and pointed to me to come over to him and I did.

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He said you're fired.

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And I was like blown away.

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And I was like what did I do?

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And he said nothing else except that I was fired.

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Charlotte, the head housekeeper told me Jerry, we told you, he told you not to be seen on the property, salty old bastard.

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And I said that is unbelievable, I know.

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Anyway, charlotte said you fired because you didn't pay attention to what his instructions were.

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And I said, charlotte, how am I supposed to cut the friggin' lawn?

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If I'm running, how am I supposed to not be seen?

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This is a big old lawn and the driver is horseshoe.

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So what do I do?

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She said that's up to you to figure out.

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It was really.

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They're really callous.

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She didn't mean to be, but she had to be.

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And that's how Mr Geddes addressed me.

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That's the way he was with all his employees.

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Again, I think that's difficult to explain any other way.

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Just joy, humiliating other people.

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And I just beckoned and went back to work.

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Charlie got me the job again.

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I would tiptoe up to the attic and go back to my room off the garage.

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He had a beautiful setting.

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I loved it there Brad Swimming pool in the backyard, fancy lawn parties, nobody ate anything.

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I would go there after the party and hide some shrimp in the refrigerator and hide this for the nighttime and I ate like a king.

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I know it's a lot of information, but it was a wild summer.

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So you I mean, it really sounds like you had a really cushy setup.

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You had your nice apartment above the garage.

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You were on in great grounds Granted, the guy you worked for was an asshole, but it was a good environment overall.

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Beyond that, and somehow you started hanging out more often at Grey Gardens.

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How did you get?

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How did you get from where you were to finding Grey Gardens?

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Simple.

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My chores were quick at the prop on the estate, so if you would no less than an hour often in the morning then he leaves the fellows of the swimming pool and he twigs and landed on the lawn, I would pick them up quick, fast.

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I didn't need any heavy equipment to just rake a few leaves and get the vacuum to remove the leaves from the swimming pool and my jaws.

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Chores that were done.

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I had purchased a peugeot bicycle and it was like freedom land.

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One afternoon I had chosen to go down a country road, brad, that I had not yet written.

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There was this road, that road, and they were all flat and lovely and the properties were great Geese on the lawn, daffodils along the patterns, beautiful properties.

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This day I went down Lily Pond Lane to a road.

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I had not yet turned, made a right.

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Then I saw to my left these huge privet hedges.

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Now I knew privet hedges around Getty's property.

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They were maybe three feet in trim, trimmed property, but these were every bit of 30 feet tall.

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And gee, I turned left and there, right above my shoulder, was a peak of a mansion, but I couldn't tell where it was located because of the brush overgrowing it.

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So I didn't know where is this peak of the front, the back, the side?

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It was impossible to see anything but that peak of that match's room.

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It happened to be the boys' bedroom.

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No, I'm not a gardener, but generally speaking, bushes aren't 30 feet tall.

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No, these hedges, oh hedges aren't 30 feet tall.

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No, no, no, they aren't.

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They didn't trim.

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They didn't have money for a gardener, mrs Bielaniti, didn't, I found out later?

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Nor did they have money for sanitation to come pick up debris.

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So they stored it where they could, starting with the kitchen, library, pantry and so on.

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Back to the setting.

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It was overgrown because they didn't have a gardener to do the trimming, a gardener to do the trimming, until I showed up and did my best but didn't do a lot because I couldn't cut those damn branches.

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Up there the trees were 30 feet tall.

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Well, jerry, let me ask you.

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So you were on your bike, you saw the house.

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I guess what always amazed me and I've known your story for a decade now what always amazed me was how you had, at your young age, at 14, 15, how you had the guts to walk up to the front door and actually knock on the door of this.

00:19:31.148 --> 00:19:35.924
Essentially, you didn't know what was living in there, you didn't know if it was abandoned, if anybody lived there.

00:19:35.924 --> 00:19:39.741
But where did you find that courage to walk up and knock on the door?

00:19:40.063 --> 00:19:45.753
The first afternoon morning that I found the mansion, I didn't go up to the property.

00:19:45.753 --> 00:19:51.847
I did notice a car in the driveway over there, but I didn't go onto the porch.

00:19:51.847 --> 00:19:53.606
I did go back to my residence.

00:19:53.606 --> 00:19:57.211
In the afternoon I was lying awake thinking of what I just saw.

00:19:57.211 --> 00:19:59.448
It became evening, obviously.

00:19:59.448 --> 00:20:02.032
And I'm lying to say, okay, jerry, you're going to go back to that property and see what I just saw.

00:20:02.032 --> 00:20:02.616
It became evening, obviously.

00:20:02.616 --> 00:20:05.019
And I'm lying to say, okay, jerry, you're going to go back to that property and see what's going on.

00:20:05.019 --> 00:20:06.424
What is this place?

00:20:06.424 --> 00:20:14.228
I was so fascinated, curious-wise, so I went back on my bicycle and there was a light on on the porch.

00:20:14.228 --> 00:20:27.151
Brad, tony, there was a light on on the second floor, on to the left side of the mansion, which happened to be the northern section of the mansion, and I said somebody lives here because the lights are on.

00:20:27.571 --> 00:20:42.054
So then I went back to my little residence again, smoked about a pack of cigarettes and finally the dawn came and I went to work, finished my chores and then went back to the mansion.

00:20:42.054 --> 00:20:46.810
In front of it I took my bike and dashed it into the overgrowth.

00:20:46.810 --> 00:20:50.886
As I was looking to get to the car.

00:20:50.886 --> 00:20:54.334
I found a little path and went over to the Cadillac.

00:20:54.334 --> 00:20:55.967
It was in the driveway.

00:20:55.967 --> 00:20:59.021
It had been there since who knows 1940.

00:20:59.021 --> 00:21:02.144
It had been there since who knows 1940.

00:21:02.144 --> 00:21:16.714
It was so overgrown, the car, with trees, branches, bittersweet, wisteria, vine, wild grapes, that if it did run it couldn't have left the driveway because the saplings encompassed the entire car.

00:21:16.714 --> 00:21:19.817
I mean, it was impossible for tow trucks to get it out.

00:21:19.817 --> 00:21:24.127
It was a little obscene to get them in there, but they did eventually.

00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:31.527
You know, jerry, you obviously must not watch many movies, because there should have been a creepy old man there with a gun.

00:21:32.593 --> 00:21:35.948
Nobody was there with a gun.

00:21:35.948 --> 00:21:37.365
There was no hostility.

00:21:37.365 --> 00:21:43.464
I was trespassing Brad after that morning and I went to the car.

00:21:43.464 --> 00:21:53.886
The car was fascinating, had the keys to the ignition and the driver's door was ajar from vines that had encompassed it, so you couldn't even shut the door.

00:21:53.886 --> 00:22:00.832
And there was air in the white wool tires, which is all very interesting to me because it was a fascinating setting.

00:22:00.832 --> 00:22:04.625
There were ferns growing from the bumper of the car.

00:22:04.625 --> 00:22:10.321
Okay, there I go from the car and I look to my left and here's the front porch.

00:22:10.662 --> 00:22:12.305
Tony, where did I get the courage?

00:22:12.305 --> 00:22:15.731
My curiosity was so strong.

00:22:15.731 --> 00:22:18.301
The courage had very little to do with it.

00:22:18.301 --> 00:22:26.009
I said okay, jerry, you're either going to get arrested for trespassing or someone's going to tell you to leave the property.

00:22:26.009 --> 00:22:31.112
I didn't care if they asked me to leave, but I did have to go up to the porch.

00:22:31.112 --> 00:22:34.069
It was really important that I went up to the front porch.

00:22:34.619 --> 00:22:42.709
Then I'm on the porch, it's creaking, and I go over to the front door it's a Dutch door, you know and a screen door.

00:22:42.709 --> 00:22:50.114
In front of it, on the side of the door, are two paneled leaded glass windows.

00:22:50.114 --> 00:23:14.546
They did open, but they never opened at all when I was there and I cleaned some dust and stuff from the window and I breathed on the window pane and I looked into the vestibule and there were cobwebs and there was a tunnel that this person, who I didn't know, had obviously traveled down the stairs through the cobwebs, through the front door.

00:23:14.546 --> 00:23:18.109
It was a tunnel in which she would pass.

00:23:18.109 --> 00:23:23.928
There literally were shoulders that stop the cobwebs from proceeding to grow.

00:23:25.161 --> 00:23:47.385
Anyway, I knocked on the diamond-shaped window, but quick-fast, I saw white shoes passing under the banister of the second floor, of the second floor of the mansion, and then quickly, she came down the main stairs, three landings, through the cobweb tunnel, opened the door, opened the screen door.

00:23:47.385 --> 00:23:54.962
I heard the latch I could still hear it and said mother, the marble faun is here and I just froze one.

00:23:54.962 --> 00:23:56.803
I'd never heard of that person.

00:23:56.803 --> 00:23:59.579
I told this person that I did never.

00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:01.536
Secondly, the stance was like something did never.

00:24:01.536 --> 00:24:04.823
Secondly, the stance was like something you never could believe.

00:24:04.823 --> 00:24:18.167
It's powerful, so powerful that my eyes were tearing from the smell of cat litter and cat piss and decaying wood and everything else that was locked into that vestibule.

00:24:18.902 --> 00:24:19.664
I think it's important.

00:24:19.664 --> 00:24:21.084
You said there was no.

00:24:21.084 --> 00:24:32.826
Yes, there was no scary man with a gun waiting to accost you, but there was an unearthly creature that you did meet, who you were just talking about.

00:24:32.826 --> 00:24:39.023
Can you tell us a little bit about when Edie opened the door and said for goodness sakes, the Marble Fawn is here.

00:24:39.023 --> 00:24:43.086
Mother, the Marble Fawn is here.

00:24:43.086 --> 00:24:43.848
What confronted you?

00:24:43.848 --> 00:24:44.570
What did she look like?

00:24:44.570 --> 00:24:45.553
What was she wearing?

00:24:46.923 --> 00:24:48.749
She descended the stairs.

00:24:48.749 --> 00:25:00.484
She was wearing a shower curtain a cloth shower curtain around her shoulders and around her head and tied somehow she tied it.

00:25:00.484 --> 00:25:18.384
It was a chef's apron, a white chef's apron that you'd see someone wearing cooking in the stove, in front of the stove, and it was a heavy white apron that traveled across her shoulders, sort of Egyptian looking, egyptian looking.

00:25:18.384 --> 00:25:31.948
She had gear of an Egyptian pharaoh and it draped onto her shoulders and it went down and it was tied with another piece of cloth and it was wrapped around her waist and, of course, under that was a shallow curtain.

00:25:31.948 --> 00:25:34.208
It was a cloth shallow curtain.

00:25:34.580 --> 00:25:42.561
I don't remember the pattern but I could only stare and just an unbelievable person in front of me, edie.

00:25:42.561 --> 00:25:44.147
I found out her name was Edie.

00:25:44.147 --> 00:25:55.986
She had a presence unusual to anyone I've ever met, since it was airy, sophisticated, she spoke beautifully, it was well-mannered.

00:25:55.986 --> 00:26:11.988
It didn't make any sense, brad, tony, here's this woman wearing whatever she could find to put around her shoulders and this mansion who's decaying, all around her, but spoke like she just came out of a novel, dickens novel.

00:26:12.801 --> 00:26:16.229
That's what I find interesting the setup that they lived in.

00:26:16.229 --> 00:26:20.048
She's wearing shower curtains and she called you the marble fawn.

00:26:20.048 --> 00:26:23.930
She clearly was well educatededucated, or well-read at least.

00:26:24.852 --> 00:26:36.882
Yes, I found out later in the time we shared about the title the Marble Fawn, and it's a coincidence in many ways the Marble Fawn did.

00:26:36.882 --> 00:26:47.155
I almost fulfilled my destiny, as Edie had predicted in a later scene in the movie, because I got into trouble with drinking and everything.

00:26:48.079 --> 00:27:03.086
Well, there's a yeah, there's a tragedy in the Nathaniel Hawthorne book that's called the Marble Fawn, which we touched on a little bit in our previous episode and based on a statue a Greek statue of a young boy leaning against a stump, which you looked like at that time, jerry.

00:27:03.086 --> 00:27:03.907
You had the hair.

00:27:03.907 --> 00:27:12.152
You looked a lot like that greek statue, that's why she called you that you said it and I didn't know that book nor the statue.

00:27:12.573 --> 00:27:15.683
I can't pronounce the sculptor's name offhand.

00:27:15.683 --> 00:27:16.846
It starts with a p?

00:27:16.846 --> 00:27:17.627
Um.

00:27:17.627 --> 00:27:19.510
He's a real sculptor.

00:27:19.510 --> 00:27:33.505
But that statue, the photo was on the cover and later in the years I did see it and I actually did resemble the statue Long hair, you know, the same torso, everything you know.

00:27:33.505 --> 00:27:34.690
I'm not going to elaborate.

00:27:35.561 --> 00:27:37.950
I mean, that just shows you what reference they were.

00:27:37.950 --> 00:27:38.781
As you said, they were.

00:27:38.781 --> 00:27:39.403
Incredibly.

00:27:39.403 --> 00:27:42.332
Both of them educated, spoke eloquently.

00:27:42.332 --> 00:27:50.740
They were aristocrats living in this amazing dilapidated environment.

00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:55.271
So that just had to be mind-blowing to you, because it's mind-blowing to us as an audience watching the film.

00:27:56.121 --> 00:28:00.269
It was mind-blowing, and remember again, they were so sophisticated.

00:28:00.269 --> 00:28:02.367
Literature was a-blowing, and remember again, they were so sophisticated.

00:28:02.367 --> 00:28:02.968
Literature was a second nature.

00:28:02.968 --> 00:28:06.830
Verse and theater was common sense to them.

00:28:06.830 --> 00:28:18.230
Mrs Bialiniti could recite poetry in Longfellow and recite Thoreau, david Thoreau Naturally I can't pronounce his name, but that's it.

00:28:19.421 --> 00:28:21.886
Tony, I'm stopping our conversation real quick why?

00:28:21.886 --> 00:28:29.077
Why we're in the middle of a podcast but this is about the podcast and it's very important okay listener.

00:28:29.077 --> 00:28:34.901
Whatever app you're listening on, whether it's on the computer or on the phone, reach your finger or your mouse over.

00:28:34.901 --> 00:28:36.582
It usually says follow.

00:28:36.582 --> 00:28:39.065
Some still say subscribe and click that.

00:28:39.065 --> 00:28:41.152
And what's going to happen when they do that, tony?

00:28:41.444 --> 00:28:46.416
They're going to get notified when a new episode is available and they can listen to us again.

00:28:46.416 --> 00:28:48.089
You know you don't want to miss that.

00:28:48.371 --> 00:28:48.531
No.

00:28:48.825 --> 00:28:51.833
Can we get back to the episode that we were recording, of course, please.

00:28:51.973 --> 00:28:52.314
Of course.

00:28:52.454 --> 00:28:53.257
All right, thank you.

00:28:53.257 --> 00:28:55.772
Don't forget to subscribe and follow there you go.

00:28:55.772 --> 00:29:05.439
I would love to if we could just fast forward a bit, just for time's sake, because I mean, you're still, one story is more fascinating than the next with you.

00:29:05.439 --> 00:29:12.522
But I just, and people, if they want to know the entire story, just you know, buy our book the marble faun of gray gardens and you can get all these stories.

00:29:12.522 --> 00:29:17.196
But, jerry, I wonder if you could tell us just about some of the more challenging things that you faced.

00:29:17.805 --> 00:29:23.650
Oh, gray gardens gee, there were many, one beginning with one.

00:29:23.650 --> 00:29:25.852
Um, it was an early morning.

00:29:25.852 --> 00:29:31.477
Mrs Beale was cooking on a mattress she's a mattress but a sterno.

00:29:31.477 --> 00:29:42.028
She'd light and do her cooking using a campfire sterno to cook for a corn tea, oatmeal, soup, heating, soup heating.

00:29:42.028 --> 00:29:42.770
And I was there.

00:29:42.770 --> 00:29:46.830
I didn't think anything of it, I didn't think it was unusual because everything there was.

00:29:47.711 --> 00:30:10.471
But Mrs Bue was fumbling with the lid of the sterno to put out the fire, the flame, the blue flame, and in doing that she was very clumsy, knocked the sterno over and the flames, the flame just spread underneath the sterno and behind the cat and underneath the newspaper and over there the tissues, and it was a box of jellies.

00:30:10.471 --> 00:30:23.236
And I just stood up and just looked and freaked out and I put my hands in puff, puff, puff, puff, put out the fire so it didn't catch the mattress anymore or absorb.

00:30:23.236 --> 00:30:25.011
It, didn't get the fire out of control.

00:30:25.011 --> 00:30:27.151
Edie's over there in La La Land.

00:30:27.151 --> 00:30:28.335
Good morning Edie.

00:30:28.335 --> 00:30:32.435
The mattress is going to be on fire because the flame is blue.

00:30:32.435 --> 00:30:36.377
It's traveling towards you, but nobody's home.

00:30:36.377 --> 00:30:38.653
Light's on but nobody's home with Edie.

00:30:39.305 --> 00:30:44.970
I want us to get to when the Maisel showed up, but because you're talking about the sterno, I have to ask you this question right now.

00:30:45.030 --> 00:30:45.250
Yes.

00:30:46.353 --> 00:30:48.376
Big Edie said that you liked her corn.

00:30:48.376 --> 00:30:49.898
Did you like her corn?

00:30:54.286 --> 00:30:56.967
I was polite, that's all I could say.

00:30:56.967 --> 00:30:57.406
I loved her.

00:30:57.406 --> 00:30:59.387
There wouldn't be this polite disrespect.

00:30:59.887 --> 00:31:04.650
You were incredibly brave, Jerry, to eat many of the things that they handed you.

00:31:04.650 --> 00:31:06.730
I mean, it was something.

00:31:07.891 --> 00:31:15.313
Here was the agreement we made After the fire incident that morning, flames blew, I said.

00:31:15.313 --> 00:31:16.472
After the flames.

00:31:16.472 --> 00:31:19.473
I said I knew better than to scold or try to.

00:31:19.473 --> 00:31:29.678
I said, mrs Beale, promise me that whenever you decide to cook you'll call me and I'll come up and dine with you, whether it's tea or oatmeal or anything.

00:31:29.678 --> 00:31:47.423
So corn morning afternoon Albert was there, david, she was making corn and I was told she lit the flame and went quick, fast upstairs to coordinate the cooking of the corn, which I, by the way, brought over as a gift.

00:31:47.423 --> 00:31:47.903
Big deal.

00:31:47.903 --> 00:31:53.847
And she made the corn and she offered it to me.

00:31:53.847 --> 00:31:56.496
I dare not say no because I didn't want to hurt Mrs Beale's feelings.

00:31:56.496 --> 00:31:58.269
And yeah, I was polite.

00:31:58.269 --> 00:31:59.535
Big deal, what's that?

00:32:00.125 --> 00:32:01.349
You know, you just mentioned.

00:32:01.349 --> 00:32:11.251
Yes, you are, you mentioned, you just mentioned David and Albert, so I think probably we should talk about who David and Albert were and what.

00:32:11.251 --> 00:32:13.193
Exactly how in the world?

00:32:13.193 --> 00:32:15.736
This movie Grey Gardens.

00:32:15.736 --> 00:32:21.060
What was it like to have these filmmakers at Grey Gardens filming your day-to-day life?

00:32:21.121 --> 00:32:22.021
Tony Brad.

00:32:22.021 --> 00:32:27.652
I thought they were students, say, from New York University, learning how to make a movie or something.

00:32:27.652 --> 00:32:30.873
I didn't know they were big shots.

00:32:32.895 --> 00:32:33.904
You thought they were student filmmakers.

00:32:34.005 --> 00:32:36.832
I thought they were learning how to use a camera making film.

00:32:36.832 --> 00:32:41.605
They had been there before with Lee, who was Jackie's sister.

00:32:41.605 --> 00:32:43.492
I didn't know that for years.

00:32:43.492 --> 00:32:45.505
I didn't know that for at least I didn't know that For at least a year.

00:32:45.505 --> 00:32:46.950
But here's what happens.

00:32:46.950 --> 00:32:50.509
How should I describe Albert and David?

00:32:50.509 --> 00:32:52.348
They were total gentlemen.

00:32:52.348 --> 00:33:04.390
Albert was if you didn't hear from him it was because he was forever behind this bazooka of a camera that was bigger than he was and you could only see his little feet moving around behind it.

00:33:04.390 --> 00:33:06.351
He was a trip I loved.

00:33:06.351 --> 00:33:16.051
Al David had the recording device strapped to his body and with this fuzzy thing recording, recording and very quiet otherwise.

00:33:16.704 --> 00:33:26.876
They showed up with Lee Redswell big deal to do a film about her life as a Bvier in his childhood, as a bouvier.

00:33:26.876 --> 00:33:29.951
I think the setting was going to be montauk.

00:33:29.951 --> 00:33:37.950
Uh, truman capote was out there that summer and mick jagger was frolicking in the waves with uh lee.

00:33:37.950 --> 00:33:40.854
Yes, he and she went to put peter.

00:33:40.854 --> 00:33:45.500
I didn't meet Peter, but he was also part of that moment.

00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:48.453
Four days they came by just from filming.

00:33:48.453 --> 00:34:00.794
Lee told us she wanted her aunt to narrate the film because the aunt had a very classic voice and I didn't know anything.

00:34:00.794 --> 00:34:05.777
Okay fine, and they just said what do I do from anything?

00:34:05.777 --> 00:34:07.805
Okay fine, and I just said what do I do?

00:34:07.805 --> 00:34:10.784
I made gin gimlets with no ice on the front porch with Rose's lime juice.

00:34:10.784 --> 00:34:19.835
It had an aluminum card table set up on the front porch and I would make gin gimlets for Edie and Mrs Beale.

00:34:19.835 --> 00:34:25.411
We hardly had any ice that summer morning, but Lee didn't want my drinks.

00:34:25.550 --> 00:34:32.228
I wasn't making so the Maisels shot for about three weeks, is that?

00:34:32.248 --> 00:34:34.668
right no, four days, four days.

00:34:34.728 --> 00:34:35.210
No, no, no, no.

00:34:35.210 --> 00:34:38.530
The film itself, the actual film Grey Gardens.

00:34:38.530 --> 00:34:49.510
After Lee put her home movie aside and the Maisels contacted the Beales to come back and film again, this time a movie just about them, correct?

00:34:49.510 --> 00:34:55.389
They were at gray gardens with you filming the film gray gardens for about three weeks, is that correct?

00:34:55.971 --> 00:34:57.213
I was thinking it was.

00:34:57.213 --> 00:35:00.507
Now that you're saying three weeks, I think it was more like seven weeks.

00:35:00.507 --> 00:35:04.795
Okay, yeah, they came back in the fall too, to film.

00:35:04.795 --> 00:35:05.257
That's right.

00:35:05.257 --> 00:35:05.918
That's right.

00:35:05.918 --> 00:35:07.947
That's right In the summer.

00:35:07.967 --> 00:35:10.554
The main part was three weeks.

00:35:10.554 --> 00:35:13.875
Oh yeah, was there anything?

00:35:13.875 --> 00:35:16.164
I don't know how to say this, I'm just going to ask it.

00:35:16.164 --> 00:35:19.545
There were a lot of visitors that came to Grey Gardens during this time.

00:35:19.545 --> 00:35:27.889
There was one visitor who came in particular the day the Maisels weren't there, which I think was on purpose, but we can talk about that some other time.

00:35:27.889 --> 00:35:34.572
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about that very special visitor who showed up one of the days the Maisels weren't there?

00:35:34.992 --> 00:35:37.652
Oh, mrs Anastas, she was.

00:35:37.652 --> 00:35:40.355
I used to smoke cigarettes, gentlemen.

00:35:40.355 --> 00:35:42.875
No more, 30 years ago.

00:35:42.875 --> 00:35:43.215
Anyway.

00:35:43.215 --> 00:35:45.737
I'm having a cigarette in front porch.

00:35:45.737 --> 00:35:48.137
I dare not light a cigarette in the mansion.

00:35:48.137 --> 00:35:51.199
One, I wouldn't light a cigarette in front of Mrs Buley.

00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:55.099
Two, it's disrespectful and the fire issue of fire.

00:35:55.099 --> 00:36:00.342
So my rule with myself was to smoke on the front porch, and I did.

00:36:00.342 --> 00:36:03.503
But this day I was having a cigarette.

00:36:03.503 --> 00:36:07.827
I painted some of the railing on the post around the front porch.

00:36:07.827 --> 00:36:10.588
I'm painting, stop, have a cigarette.

00:36:11.309 --> 00:36:12.829
And I look up to the road.

00:36:12.829 --> 00:36:15.811
Brooks had cut a little path of the lawnmower.

00:36:15.811 --> 00:36:23.737
And I look and I see a woman get out of a car with a man holding the door and I said, oh, another pain in the ass.

00:36:23.737 --> 00:36:26.938
Curiosity seeker, just like I was.

00:36:26.938 --> 00:36:34.806
I was the same person, but it wasn't really in the mood to tell them to leave the property, which I had to do in the past.

00:36:34.806 --> 00:36:36.369
But this was an adult.

00:36:36.369 --> 00:36:44.893
Well, this adult walked down Brooks's crisscross path and I swear I will never forget it.

00:36:45.346 --> 00:36:58.231
I'm looking and I see the woman that I remember from television in Brooklyn when her husband was assassinated in the car and we were told to go home from Catholic school.

00:36:58.231 --> 00:37:06.576
Sister Aquinata was my nun and she said everyone go home, the president has been shot and pray for him.

00:37:06.576 --> 00:37:07.186
We did.

00:37:07.186 --> 00:37:25.440
We went home, the TV was on black and white and I remember seeing Mrs Onassis in the television scene and here I am, fellas, looking, and it's the same person walking towards me, towards this mansion, and I said this is not possible.

00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:27.106
How on earth is this happening?

00:37:27.106 --> 00:37:37.076
And Edie opens the bedroom window on the boy's side and screams at me don't let her in here, jerry, she's not welcome and you're not going to be welcome.

00:37:37.076 --> 00:37:40.849
And I said well, I want to make a nice impression.

00:37:40.849 --> 00:37:42.875
I look like a dirt bomb to begin with.

00:37:42.875 --> 00:37:48.074
I have a dirty sweatshirt on and Mrs Onassis is walking towards me.

00:37:48.074 --> 00:37:54.576
I'm really aware who she is and Edie's acting like a banshee over there in the window, behind the screen.

00:37:55.445 --> 00:37:58.114
But she didn't look at me right away.

00:37:58.114 --> 00:38:08.431
She took off her big sunglasses, she took them off and she gazed across the peak of the mansion over towards the master bedroom.

00:38:08.431 --> 00:38:10.507
I could, I watched everything.

00:38:10.507 --> 00:38:11.932
I watched her expressions.

00:38:11.932 --> 00:38:17.632
She gazed at the mansion and went back and gazed again and then looked at the window.

00:38:17.632 --> 00:38:38.353
Edie was still screaming out the window and she looked at me and she extended her right hand and I instinctively knew to be very polite because I wasn't anyway, and I she put her hand and I grabbed her fingers, four fingers, and I embraced them and she said you must be, jerry.

00:38:38.353 --> 00:38:41.880
My aunt and cousin have grown very fond of you.

00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:43.208
They trust you.

00:38:43.208 --> 00:38:48.409
In fact we're all surprised that you're even here, allowed in the mansion.

00:38:48.409 --> 00:38:51.715
I understand you stay over at times, monk.

00:38:51.715 --> 00:38:55.027
I was just yeah, I do.

00:38:55.027 --> 00:38:57.130
What do I say now?

00:38:58.472 --> 00:39:01.518
You must have been bowled over that Jackie O knew who you were.

00:39:01.824 --> 00:39:05.746
Which I was, because Lee had told her Lee was her sister.

00:39:05.746 --> 00:39:11.289
She had been there, I don't know, maybe a month or five weeks earlier that summer.

00:39:11.289 --> 00:39:15.972
See, lee knew my name and everything and she knew how I made liquor drinks.

00:39:15.992 --> 00:39:18.813
No, she knew how I made drinks.

00:39:19.054 --> 00:39:27.838
I was a terrible bartender, but Lee was polite, and so was Mrs Onassis, and that's how I believe she understood who I was, knew my name.

00:39:27.918 --> 00:39:31.000
I think the interesting thing about that too is Edie's reaction.

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.521
Not welcome, jackie.

00:39:33.521 --> 00:39:45.617
Thank you so much for all the help you've given us, but don't let her in it's a real animosity on Edie's part towards Jackie wasn't there Jerry?

00:39:45.637 --> 00:39:46.425
Well, I felt that they were stressed out.

00:39:46.425 --> 00:39:57.853
Not Mrs Onassis, but Edie was really competitive, like I'd been used to her being competitive towards me and even the delivery guy with the food.

00:39:57.853 --> 00:40:00.534
He would come from Newtown Grocer.

00:40:00.534 --> 00:40:05.891
She would sometimes I don't know what her issue was she would be very competitive.

00:40:05.891 --> 00:40:09.210
Where he left the groceries, did he pick up the check?

00:40:09.210 --> 00:40:19.117
This energy was the same with Mrs Onassis Not so much Mrs Onassis who was completely a lady and did.

00:40:19.237 --> 00:40:27.099
Finally, and she and Edie went off to the front of the library area of the porch and had a powwow over there.

00:40:27.099 --> 00:40:28.670
I was so glad.

00:40:28.670 --> 00:40:36.173
I was glad they both went over there because I was like sweating and nervous and I didn't know what to make of myself, how I looked.

00:40:36.173 --> 00:40:43.231
They went over to the front of the library windows and they yapped and yapped and I stood there right where I met her.

00:40:43.231 --> 00:40:58.300
I didn't move from that pub, that place I stood, and afterwards Edie dashed upstairs, slams the door, mrs Onassis returns to me and gives me some instructions and I was a bit more calm now.

00:40:58.300 --> 00:41:06.579
Although I didn't light a cigarette, I was still calm and she said here's what we need to do, and I just listened.

00:41:06.579 --> 00:41:07.827
What do I do?

00:41:08.568 --> 00:41:18.416
So I think it's important for those that may have seen the 2009 film, the HBO film that had Drew Barrymore and Jessica Lange In that movie, the scene with Jackie.

00:41:18.416 --> 00:41:21.806
It was very cordial and you're saying that is not true.

00:41:22.527 --> 00:41:46.219
No, omeone called me two Sundays in a row, before the film was decided upon, to gather information from me about the mansion and Edie and Mrs Beale, including what doors were there.

00:41:46.219 --> 00:41:48.181
Were there leaded glass in the doors?

00:41:48.181 --> 00:41:49.710
Everything and more.

00:42:04.329 --> 00:42:07.291
I told this fellow exactly the truth.

00:42:07.291 --> 00:42:21.211
What I just told to you about Mrs Arnaz's arriving, the sweatshirt, the cigarettes putting the cigarette out in the grass, edie's behavior at the window All of that was candid fact.

00:42:21.211 --> 00:42:27.452
It didn't show up in the film but simply said Brad and Tony.

00:42:27.452 --> 00:42:30.358
No one was there but I.

00:42:30.358 --> 00:42:36.297
No one saw or spoke to Mrs Onassis except for myself and Edie.

00:42:36.297 --> 00:42:38.753
Mrs Beale didn't enter the picture.

00:42:38.753 --> 00:42:47.378
Mrs Onassis did not go into the mansion and she did not have a favorable feeling of it wasn't comfortable.

00:42:47.965 --> 00:42:55.586
Not only that, Jerry, you weren't, even you weren't in the film I mean they totally took the stories that you gave them and dismissed you from the, from the film.

00:42:55.586 --> 00:42:58.153
So I I mean that's you know?

00:42:58.153 --> 00:43:01.050
Yeah, well, that's that's, that's, that's, that's hurtful.

00:43:01.050 --> 00:43:05.445
How insulted I was, and you have every right to be.

00:43:05.445 --> 00:43:09.335
That's why I'm glad in the book we can kind of set the record straight about what happened with that.

00:43:09.996 --> 00:43:10.318
Thank you.

00:43:11.126 --> 00:43:16.210
I want to just loop around about Edie's paranoia, Because we had talked about.

00:43:16.210 --> 00:43:21.733
You know she was very jealous of Jackie, very paranoid, Paranoid when the people from Newtown Grocers came.

00:43:22.224 --> 00:43:23.931
Well, the one person, the delivery guy.

00:43:24.353 --> 00:43:32.617
Right, but what was your reaction seeing the film for the first time and seeing Edie's what Edie said about you on screen?

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:34.420
Thank you.

00:43:34.420 --> 00:43:49.293
When I first saw the film and it was all very excited and well, I was excited, but there was a scene that really did hurt my feelings that I finally addressed to Edie.

00:43:49.293 --> 00:43:51.110
It was in the attic.

00:43:51.110 --> 00:43:54.469
Edie's referring to some books that were moved around.

00:43:54.469 --> 00:43:59.432
I know the raccoons did play moving things around, they just did.

00:43:59.432 --> 00:44:02.068
And she said who's been moving books around?

00:44:02.068 --> 00:44:03.865
Someone's been up in the attic.

00:44:03.865 --> 00:44:13.981
But I said to Edie after I saw the film Edie, I saw that portion of the film where she asked the Maisels, who's been moving books up here?

00:44:13.981 --> 00:44:17.431
And I said you know that scene.

00:44:17.670 --> 00:44:19.054
It really hurt my feelings.

00:44:19.054 --> 00:44:22.329
I know you, you know me, you trust me.

00:44:22.329 --> 00:44:25.393
I don't ask you for any money, I want to be friends with you.

00:44:25.393 --> 00:44:25.579
You know me, you trust me.

00:44:25.579 --> 00:44:26.101
I don't ask you for any money, I want to be friends with you.

00:44:26.101 --> 00:44:36.976
I had thought we were, but your speaking made me feel like you didn't trust me and I don't know why you would say that and it really hurt my feelings.

00:44:36.976 --> 00:44:44.112
I'm saying this to Edie and she turns to me and turns and says well, what do you think of this outfit?

00:44:44.112 --> 00:44:49.213
She just dismissed my feelings.

00:44:49.213 --> 00:44:56.672
I said, oh, forget it, you know, she just dismissed how I felt about that scene.

00:44:56.672 --> 00:44:58.148
It was unfair.

00:44:58.148 --> 00:45:00.175
She wasn't nice to me in that scene.

00:45:01.487 --> 00:45:03.394
I can totally get why that would be hurtful.

00:45:03.394 --> 00:45:05.728
I mean, I can't imagine anybody not being hurt by that.

00:45:05.728 --> 00:45:08.329
But, was it surprising knowing Edie.

00:45:10.655 --> 00:45:12.240
No, she played to the camera.

00:45:12.240 --> 00:45:14.829
She liked the drama of a camera.

00:45:14.829 --> 00:45:24.083
So there were books over there and over there and a few things in the attic that were upset because the raccoons made nests up there.

00:45:24.083 --> 00:45:28.340
They tore apart paintings and made nests out of the canvas.

00:45:28.340 --> 00:45:31.032
Was that unusual for Edie?

00:45:31.032 --> 00:45:32.994
No, was that unusual for Edie?

00:45:32.994 --> 00:45:43.023
No, she would make a mountain out of a molehill, just to accentuate her style of being the theater, the actress no.

00:45:43.463 --> 00:45:46.005
What about the washing machine, Jerry?

00:45:46.005 --> 00:45:47.286
What about the washing machine?

00:45:48.230 --> 00:45:53.335
Oh, Jesus, he's Sally, the old man.

00:45:53.335 --> 00:45:55.298
I call him then a little bit.

00:45:55.298 --> 00:45:59.905
His housekeeper, charlotte, says hmm, selling the mansion.

00:46:00.005 --> 00:46:06.036
This is Mr Getty, mr Getty's, mr Getty's, mr Getty's housekeeper, charlotte.

00:46:06.036 --> 00:46:07.639
Yeah, that's right, go ahead.

00:46:07.981 --> 00:46:13.556
Right, and you know, his chauffeur's name was Schaefer Schaefer, his chauffeur.

00:46:13.556 --> 00:46:17.264
Well, if you need to know that, well, that's just a fact.

00:46:21.349 --> 00:46:27.664
But there's a very famous scene in the film Grey Gardens where Edie is clearly perturbed because you gave them a washing machine.

00:46:27.664 --> 00:46:31.630
So can you just give us a little bit of background about that washing machine story?

00:46:31.829 --> 00:46:38.297
The house was going to be put on the market for sale and the old man was fixing up the kitchen and the pantry and everything.

00:46:38.297 --> 00:46:40.817
They put a new washing machine in.

00:46:40.817 --> 00:46:41.974
He got rid of the old one.

00:46:41.974 --> 00:46:45.159
Charlotte said help yourself to the washing machine.

00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:49.641
He said why don't you bring it down to the cat lady's house?

00:46:49.641 --> 00:46:53.173
Oh, that's what they called, mrs Bielele, the cat lady's.

00:46:53.173 --> 00:46:55.016
I said that's a good idea.

00:46:55.016 --> 00:46:56.159
So I did.

00:46:56.159 --> 00:47:06.139
I put on the furniture dolly and pulled it down Lily Pond Lane and it was a scandal of the year, like all these fancy-ass cars driving up past me.

00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:08.378
The windows opened a little bit.

00:47:08.378 --> 00:47:20.385
There was just a sneer at me like, oh, the peasant is here, the peon is carrying, pulling a washing machine down Lily Pond Lane and I looked like peon because I didn't care.

00:47:20.385 --> 00:47:27.677
And they made fun of everything we did there and even in the supermarket.

00:47:27.677 --> 00:47:28.981
You know, oh, you have fleas on you.

00:47:28.981 --> 00:47:32.876
Don't go near me, stuff like that the townspeople.

00:47:33.429 --> 00:47:44.822
The point is I drugged the washing machine to Mrs Bill and Edie's home, drug it into the kitchen, put it in there and set it up so we could handle hot water.

00:47:44.822 --> 00:47:46.315
But wash clothes.

00:47:46.315 --> 00:47:51.489
I had hoped I did wash my sweatshirt, cold water and some jeans.

00:47:51.489 --> 00:47:56.702
It was a gift to improve the situation in the mansion.

00:47:56.702 --> 00:48:03.878
Maybe we could clean some of these clothes or wash some of these blankets, towels, even like my pants too.

00:48:03.878 --> 00:48:11.278
But he played that as if I was being, I don't know, moving in cementing the deal.

00:48:11.278 --> 00:48:13.835
Cement, what deal?

00:48:13.835 --> 00:48:15.275
I'd already been there.

00:48:15.275 --> 00:48:17.115
What are you talking about?

00:48:17.115 --> 00:48:19.297
He says that cements the deal.

00:48:19.297 --> 00:48:21.097
He'll be here for another 10 years.

00:48:21.097 --> 00:48:23.538
I'll be damned if I watch Washington Machine.

00:48:25.652 --> 00:48:27.318
So it's just that these kinds of things happen.

00:48:27.318 --> 00:48:44.293
These kinds of things happened a lot with Edie, with her level of paranoia with you, and I always want to express to people what I know about you is the fact that you only had the best intentions ever with the Beals, because you love these two women.

00:48:44.293 --> 00:49:01.025
They were your surrogate family right, I do, and your aim was only to help them and unfortunately, edie playing for the camera or Edie just being slightly a paranoid person, blew that kind of stuff out of proportion.

00:49:01.025 --> 00:49:04.679
So I just wanted to settle the record on that particular point.

00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:05.159
Thank you.

00:49:05.681 --> 00:49:06.041
Thank you.

00:49:07.110 --> 00:49:09.891
It's very clear and that's the point you made.

00:49:09.891 --> 00:49:10.411
Very clear.

00:49:10.411 --> 00:49:13.092
That's exactly as it had been.

00:49:13.092 --> 00:49:20.918
Edie would play up to the camera, no matter who was the victim who was to be portrayed.

00:49:20.918 --> 00:49:24.519
It was either myself or not Brooks.

00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:31.885
So much because Brooks was sort of in the background and Mrs Beale she was always on the block.

00:49:31.885 --> 00:49:34.106
Edie was always after Mrs Beale.

00:49:34.106 --> 00:49:36.067
I got to get out of this goddamn house.

00:49:36.067 --> 00:49:36.608
I'm not there.

00:49:36.608 --> 00:49:39.432
Blah, blah, blah and Mrs Beale, they would pick her for the.

00:49:39.432 --> 00:49:42.760
They would start a debate at 11 o'clock at night.

00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:44.664
It would go on until 3 in the morning.

00:49:44.664 --> 00:49:47.579
They'd wake up and continue.

00:49:47.579 --> 00:49:51.170
I'd say, no, I've got to go to sleep, bye.

00:49:51.170 --> 00:49:56.072
And I'd go downstairs, sleep on, my arm be cut, but they would just pick her.

00:49:56.072 --> 00:49:57.512
I think they loved it.

00:49:57.512 --> 00:50:00.434
I think it was their way of staying alive.

00:50:00.434 --> 00:50:01.213
I mean it.

00:50:01.434 --> 00:50:02.974
Yeah, entertaining each other.

00:50:03.014 --> 00:50:15.398
Yeah, that's right, they were one of a kind indeed, but the washing machine was sort of like oh you're not going to give me a hard time about it, I just drug this down a quarter mile to the house.

00:50:15.398 --> 00:50:17.358
And you're saying this to Albert.

00:50:17.358 --> 00:50:21.239
Well, I'm pulverized by this new event.

00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:22.619
What pulverized?

00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:26.240
I wanted to yell at her later, but I never brought it up.

00:50:26.240 --> 00:50:27.081
I did not.

00:50:27.081 --> 00:50:32.503
You know, I'm sort of used to ED bringing things up against people.

00:50:32.503 --> 00:50:37.565
I was not there for any other reason but to help period, that's all.

00:50:37.565 --> 00:50:39.425
And she knew that.

00:50:39.425 --> 00:50:42.385
I know she did, but she liked being the actress.

00:50:42.385 --> 00:50:43.045
You know.

00:50:43.525 --> 00:50:47.907
So you said that Edie, little Edie played it up for the camera.

00:50:47.907 --> 00:50:51.949
But I'm thinking of the scene where Big Edie is singing Two for Tea.

00:50:52.389 --> 00:50:52.929
Tea for Two.

00:50:56.650 --> 00:50:56.871
Tea for Two.

00:50:56.871 --> 00:50:58.297
Yes, it looked to me like she was playing up for the camera.

00:50:58.297 --> 00:50:58.820
Is that true?

00:50:58.820 --> 00:51:00.972
Or is that just something that she would break into the song?

00:51:01.313 --> 00:51:08.740
No, she wasn't playing for the camera, she was reminiscing about her past in vivid, as best of detail as she could muster.

00:51:08.740 --> 00:51:14.898
Mrs Beale was very passionate about singing and I loved her for that.

00:51:14.898 --> 00:51:17.929
But in that scene I was standing in the corridor.

00:51:17.929 --> 00:51:23.769
She was singing tea for two in the music, in the orchestra, in the show on Broadway.

00:51:23.769 --> 00:51:27.898
She was so alive in that moment, so excited to be alive.

00:51:27.898 --> 00:51:36.978
She was just doing her best to sing tea for two, as she had sung it in her youth, and she lost.

00:51:36.978 --> 00:51:41.239
Yeah, and you know what I was so touched by.

00:51:41.239 --> 00:51:45.360
She went into that portion where she lost it.

00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:47.918
There were the lyrics.

00:51:48.389 --> 00:51:49.474
It was a little too high for her.

00:51:49.474 --> 00:51:50.077
Yeah, yeah.

00:51:50.492 --> 00:51:55.414
She lost the lyrics and then she just said, oh and happy we would be.

00:51:55.414 --> 00:51:57.880
That was authentic, everything about her.

00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:05.940
She, sir, truly loved singing and tried her best in that scene to sing, but she lost her way.

00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:07.844
You know what?

00:52:08.065 --> 00:52:08.867
um, so, jerry, what?

00:52:08.867 --> 00:52:14.335
What I kind of want to talk about the, the filming's over and and and what to you?

00:52:14.335 --> 00:52:20.943
What is the legacy of this film in your life?

00:52:20.943 --> 00:52:22.686
I guess I want to say Does that make sense?

00:52:22.686 --> 00:52:32.016
Obviously, you've come full circle, a lot with this story and being a part of this iconic film, it's a part of film history.

00:52:32.016 --> 00:52:34.978
What has Grey Gardens meant to you in your life?

00:52:34.978 --> 00:52:41.353
The film, not necessarily the beals and your relationship with them, but what has the film meant for you or done for you, good or bad?

00:52:42.856 --> 00:52:44.840
well, what it's done for me is it?

00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:49.896
It makes it clear that a life so unusual was lived.

00:52:49.896 --> 00:52:54.523
I couldn't have explained this to to you or Brad, if it wasn't for the film.

00:52:54.523 --> 00:53:05.483
I went to my brother's wedding trying to explain it to the people in the party the wedding party and they thought either I was drinking too much or I just didn't know what I was talking about.

00:53:05.483 --> 00:53:06.735
This is the stuff of fiction.

00:53:07.349 --> 00:53:13.650
Yeah, they said you mean to tell me they're related to who and they lived where and how they live in this mansion.

00:53:13.650 --> 00:53:17.494
Go smoke another joint or something like that.

00:53:17.494 --> 00:53:19.777
I mean it was hard to explain.

00:53:19.777 --> 00:53:22.139
I haven't actually Brad and Tony.

00:53:22.139 --> 00:53:28.664
I hadn't actually given up on trying to explain this history of my life for years.

00:53:28.664 --> 00:53:34.599
I didn't have a copy of the film, I didn't write a book, I had it all stored here in my mind and heart.

00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:42.443
But to explain it, trying to keep it simply understood, it was nearly impossible.

00:53:42.443 --> 00:53:45.318
If it wasn't for the film, it wouldn't be possible.

00:53:45.318 --> 00:53:47.135
Would you understand this?

00:53:47.135 --> 00:53:49.295
If it wasn't for the film, come on.

00:53:49.717 --> 00:53:51.661
You wouldn't get it, I couldn't even know.

00:53:52.090 --> 00:53:57.041
I wouldn't be able to explain it thoroughly, accurately as I have.

00:53:57.041 --> 00:53:59.693
How did it?

00:53:59.693 --> 00:54:01.097
What did it do for me in my life?

00:54:01.097 --> 00:54:09.143
It gave me the courage to my own convictions, to live by my own rules and be who I am, no matter what.

00:54:09.143 --> 00:54:14.882
You know, I so admired Edie for her devotion to her mother.

00:54:14.882 --> 00:54:27.141
They suffered crazy winters they didn't have to, but they wouldn't give in to the family's dictates to sell the mansion, to live in a cottage somewhere.

00:54:27.141 --> 00:54:29.686
They thought the Bahamas would be suitable.

00:54:29.686 --> 00:54:34.539
But Mrs Beale said no, I'm not surrendering my home for money.

00:54:34.539 --> 00:54:37.030
I'm a bouvier, she'd say to me.

00:54:37.030 --> 00:54:47.396
No one's ever taken from me anything I did not want to give and she was very stubborn, very proud, and I admired that about her.

00:54:47.396 --> 00:54:49.813
What did it take away from this film?

00:54:49.813 --> 00:54:55.909
It's influenced my life in the arts, in the theater, literature.

00:54:55.909 --> 00:55:05.416
I became a sculptor and presently I'm showing my work at the Museum of Modern Art here in New York City starting May.

00:55:05.416 --> 00:55:10.170
Believe it all the years of carving stone.

00:55:10.692 --> 00:55:14.278
My work will be seen in the Museum of Modern Art.

00:55:14.278 --> 00:55:17.016
I still can't believe I'm saying that to you.

00:55:17.016 --> 00:55:18.320
I mean, it's a fact.

00:55:18.320 --> 00:55:26.237
They came here two weeks ago interviewed me the art students league I'm talking about me too much, never mind.

00:55:26.257 --> 00:55:31.804
No, no, no, I'm so glad you're mentioning it because you should mention it and you should be proud of it because you're an incredibly talented sculptor.

00:55:31.804 --> 00:55:33.402
Because you should mention it and you should be proud of it because you're an incredibly talented sculptor.

00:55:33.402 --> 00:55:40.577
And it kind of brings you full circle back to your nickname of the Marble Fawn, because you work in marble and stone.

00:55:40.577 --> 00:55:48.581
Edie's prediction about a terrible tragedy befalling you that she says in the film clearly did not come true.

00:55:48.581 --> 00:55:52.331
You are thriving in your life, which I love.

00:55:52.331 --> 00:56:00.864
The fact that you took so much of your cues for your life from the Beals and the positive attitude they instilled in you in the most ridiculous of circumstances.

00:56:01.170 --> 00:56:02.496
Amen, I did.

00:56:02.496 --> 00:56:06.257
And I remember well Mrs Beals saying to me.

00:56:06.257 --> 00:56:10.554
We're downstairs in the vestibule Just after a birthday party.

00:56:10.554 --> 00:56:15.563
Mrs Beals said in your lifetime many people will be interested in our friendship.

00:56:15.563 --> 00:56:19.780
And I said well, I'm interested in our friendship.

00:56:19.780 --> 00:56:21.617
I've got to help you up the stairs right now.

00:56:21.617 --> 00:56:32.398
Then, another time Mrs Beale said to me oh no, I said to Mrs Beale, you know, you're a very interesting person and the estate is very interesting.

00:56:32.398 --> 00:56:37.478
Someone should come along and make a movie or paint a painting or write a book about you.

00:56:37.478 --> 00:56:39.362
And Mrs Beale chuckled.

00:56:39.362 --> 00:56:44.657
But she said she said to me that and I have this written beautiful thing.

00:56:44.657 --> 00:56:49.617
Mrs Beale wrote to me about my future, wishing me well and everything.

00:56:49.617 --> 00:56:53.019
But her predictions were fairly accurate.

00:56:53.019 --> 00:56:57.617
She said find what you love and pursue it, because you'll be good at what you do.

00:56:57.617 --> 00:57:01.032
And I loved Stonework and I did.

00:57:01.032 --> 00:57:01.534
I do still carve.

00:57:01.534 --> 00:57:04.193
So now.

00:57:04.373 --> 00:57:05.577
I love it.

00:57:06.311 --> 00:57:11.057
What I think is interesting is, when you made this film, we didn't know about streaming Streaming.

00:57:11.590 --> 00:57:15.001
Movies on TV, like on TV, like Apple and Netflix.

00:57:16.791 --> 00:57:28.224
So you thought these were college film students, so I presume you had no idea that 50 years later people could pick up the remote and watch you on television at any time At age 17.

00:57:28.224 --> 00:57:29.472
I just got a cell phone.

00:57:29.512 --> 00:57:29.972
Brad.

00:57:29.972 --> 00:57:45.273
Well, it meant the world to me because, mrs Beale, regardless of how you may perceive the Beales the perception of them being untidy and not good housekeepers, for sure but they had integrity.

00:57:45.273 --> 00:57:49.362
They just did and they instilled that onto me.

00:57:49.362 --> 00:57:52.094
No one ever took from me what I've ever wanted to me.

00:57:52.094 --> 00:57:53.277
They never, never let what Ms Beale said.

00:57:53.277 --> 00:57:57.235
No one ever took from me what I've ever wanted, never wanted to give.

00:57:57.931 --> 00:58:11.898
I think what's beautiful is in their lifetime, when they were alive, you were their caretaker of their house, grey Gardens, and after they're gone, you're now the caretaker of the film Grey Gardens and the legacy, which I think is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

00:58:19.949 --> 00:58:21.697
Brad, was there anything else that you wanted to discuss with our illustrious guest?

00:58:21.697 --> 00:58:22.079
No, I just want to.

00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:23.003
Jerry, thank you for being with us today.

00:58:23.003 --> 00:58:24.409
A fascinating story has made even more fascinating talking to you.

00:58:24.851 --> 00:58:26.494
Very happy to be with you, tony Brad.

00:58:26.494 --> 00:58:28.539
I'm very happy that we're friends now.

00:58:28.539 --> 00:58:31.717
I met you Really really good Thank you, jerry.

00:58:32.170 --> 00:58:35.289
Thank you, Jerry, for our friends in the New York City area.

00:58:35.289 --> 00:58:45.682
I just want to say that Jerry will be doing a book signing of our book the Marble Fawn of Grey Gardens at MoMA on June 29th from 3 to 5 pm.

00:58:45.682 --> 00:58:50.842
So if you get a chance, first of all go see his sculpture, because it's fantastic.

00:58:50.842 --> 00:59:04.077
It's available at MoMA PS1 through October 14th and also the Situations Gallery through July 24th, and I will put all of this information in the show notes, so just check that out.

00:59:04.077 --> 00:59:10.541
But if you do get the opportunity to see Jerry's sculpture, it is fantastic and I guarantee you you will not be disappointed.

00:59:10.541 --> 00:59:11.342
Thanks.