Beale-mania: The Mad Prophecy of “Network” (1976)

Tony Maietta:
Hello. I'm film historian, Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve:
And, of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
Tony, I don't think I wanna do this podcast anymore. 

Tony Maietta:
Why? What's what do you mean? What's up?

Brad Shreve:
Why? Sorry. I

Brad Shreve:
I I've just run out of bullshit. I don't really know what else I can say. I just ran out of bullshit.

Tony Maietta:
I love that. I love that. I I ran out of bullshit too earlier this month. I ran out of bullshit.

Brad Shreve:
We don't know where we're going through all this. This pointless pain and humiliation, it's bullshit.

Tony Maietta:
It's bullshit. It is bullshit. Just don't fuck with my distribution charges. That's all I'm saying. Don't don't mess with my distribution cost. Don't do it.

Brad Shreve:
I am thrilled we're doing my baby here.

Tony Maietta:
You are this is listener, this is, a couple things. This is our season finale, Brad. This is our It is. Season finale, the end of our very first season ongoing Hollywood. And it is Brad's choice, as I said last week, and Brad's favorite, your favorite movie. Right?

Brad Shreve:
This this is my favorite movie, hands down, and, you know, I watched it a few times before today. And I watched it again last night, and I'm like, wow. I know why. And, first of all, regarding the season finale, I'm both equally happy and sad. I'm sad because this is so much fun.

Tony Maietta:
It is fun.

Brad Shreve:
Because my newest book, I've told the readers, is coming out. It's coming out. It's coming out. This will give me some time hopefully to finish it. My editor is fed up. So

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah. Absolutely. I think that, you know, it's I think it's good that we that we take a little bit of a break just as they did in classic Hollywood television. We have about 30 plus episodes, and I think it's nice to take a little break, give people an opportunity to discover us. Maybe they'll discover us as they discovered All in the Family and then summer reruns of 1971 during our season off. And we'll come back, and we'll have our distribution charges. Our shares will be huge.

Brad Shreve:
And we don't have to worry about reruns because people can go back and listen to the old episodes anytime.

Tony Maietta:
It'll it'll be like the fur the very first time. But it's been a lot of fun, but I'm very excited about doing this today. I think we are talk about ending on a high. No. We're not ending, but you know what I'm saying. Ending on a high the season ending on a high. Although, listener, as I've said ad nauseam, we will be back for a special Christmas episode on Christmas Day, so you're not totally rid of us. But talk about ending on a high, Brad.

Tony Maietta:
Network. Wow. Paddy Chayefsky's network from 1976,

Tony Maietta:
MGM UA. He is brilliant. And Yeah. I'm glad you know you know as well as I do. .

Brad Shreve:
Typically, a writer writes a film, and then they're done

Tony Maietta:
No.

Brad Shreve:
That that's it. Nobody wants anything to do with them. You're a writer. You're not you're not involved in film. Let us take over. That wasn't the case in this

Tony Maietta:
film. Oh, god. No. He he was a producer.

Brad Shreve:
He made sure it was done well.

Tony Maietta:
He was a producer. He was he was a very hands on producer according to Sydney Lumet who directed this masterpiece. He was a very hands on producer. In fact, I believe he had final cut. Lumet did not have final cut on this, and Lumet was fine with that. Because they were first of all, they were such close friends. And second of all, Lumet had such incredible respect for Chayefsky and for his brilliance his brilliant screenplay that he was like, no. You go ahead.

Tony Maietta:
This is yours. You can do it, and it's a genius film.

Brad Shreve:
And that says a lot about Lumet because throughout this whole film, they just said he was like, okay.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. No. He he totally trusted. Another thing that I also Lumet also said was that, you know, I think we when we talked about our our top five episodes, I and one of mine was Garbo Talks. And I said it was probably Sydney Lumet's only comedy if you don't count this. If you don't count this blackest of comedies. And he said that he relied on Paddy Chayefsky to to show him the comedy, to go from his script. You know, he relied on Paddy Chayefsky when he wasn't sure about a comedic scene in a comedic tone because he was not he was the first one to admit he was not adept at comedies.

Tony Maietta:
And that's a what a wonderful working relationship. It's kind of like our relationship, Brad. It's very much relying on each other.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. You're the know it all, and yet you still put up with me.

Tony Maietta:
Well, what what what I wanna ask you a question. So you you love this movie. This is your favorite favorite film. Tell me why. Tell me why this is your favorite film.

Brad Shreve:
What I find it just so entertaining. There's there's aspects of this film I don't like, but as a rule, I find this incredibly entertaining. Mhmm. It certainly was prophetic. And a lot of people say it was prophetic when it comes to television news, and it was in that sense because we see in this movie that the news has moved into the entertainment division, which wasn't that didn't happen in but after this film, that did happen. News was moved in most networks, maybe all for all I know, to the entertainment division. Mhmm. The news people were not very happy about.

Brad Shreve:
And we we've seen now today what has become of that. But what this there's so much here as far as reality television, the way news has gone, but I really see it being prophetic today because so many people are getting their news. The number one news source for social media is x. Oh my god.

Tony Maietta:
That's so depressing.

Brad Shreve:
The number one news source on television is Fox.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, God. Even more depressing.

Brad Shreve:
No sense of reality, especially acts, for God's sakes. So people are going online. They're going to TikTok. There's a certain age range, young adults that are getting all their news from TikTok. Yeah. They're getting their news from YouTube. And, you know, both of those are good sources for opinions, for editorial commentary, but they're reading it as news. This is this is factual.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, you know

Tony Maietta:
They're only listening to what they wanna hear.

Tony Maietta:
It's amazing. And and

Brad Shreve:
And there's other things that it's I'll probably end up getting political because there's other aspects of this film that are dead on.

Tony Maietta:
Can't can't be avoided. You know, a media created star, madman, Howard Beale. I mean, you don't have to think too too long before you know who we're talking about here. But, you know, what I thought was what I think is interesting about, Lumet said, that the film he said this all the time too. Every interview that Lumet did about network, he would say, the film isn't satire. It's reportage. Yeah. And, it's true.

Tony Maietta:
And it was even true back then. And you know what's made me think of? It made me think of there's obviously some kind of connections here to the Mary Tyler Moore Show. Okay? Ted Baxter is a distant cousin of Howard Beale. We know this. Okay? But do you remember one of my favorite episodes of of Mary Tyler Moore, is the 3rd season, first episode called The Good Time News, in which a new station manager takes over the network news, and he wants to have it fun. He wants to make it entertainment. And that was in 1972. Okay? So it was even happening in and I think maybe MTM had a little bit of a jump on Patty Chayefsky Chayefsky about this because network is 76, and Mary Tyler Moore was commenting on it in 1972.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Did you did you

Tony Maietta:
see did you, by chance, get that connection or the Ted Baxter connection

Brad Shreve:
with Howard Beadle? I I know they referenced Mary Tyler Moore, but I They do.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. They done away. It does.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. I did not make that connection. But you are correct. And, which is kind of funny because if you think of 1972 and even 1976, but especially 72, by today's standards, that was hard hitting straight to the point. That was still Cronkite in 72, wasn't it? Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. No. Very much so. Very much so.

Brad Shreve:
So the you know, that was good god. I'd give anything to have that news back compared to No.

Tony Maietta:
Absolutely. You had, you know, Cronkite. You had Reasoner. You had Chancellor on NBC who was a good friend of Paddy Chayefsky. He talked to a lot about this. You know? So it but it was starting to bleed in, I think, is the thing. That's Yeah. That was the point.

Tony Maietta:
It was the entertainment. News was starting to kind of make the turn to what we now see. And about this film being a comedy, a black comedy, he's you could also call it a serious film told in comedic terms. And I think one of the biggest things about this film that that sets the tone is the narration. You know? Yes. It it removes the audience from the film. So we know we're watching a film. We're not watching real life.

Tony Maietta:
It removes it's brings the audience back one step from the reality, which I think is a genius thing that they did with this film that that Tchaikovsky wrote and that that that there's a narrator who not only leads us to the transitions, but also lends that comic edge so we're not taking it quite too seriously.

Brad Shreve:
Well, and I did miss something when I said that this is my favorite movie. It's the cast. And not just the cast. Every one of them was at the top of their game in this film.

Tony Maietta:
Abs absolutely. And every one of them, all the principles Lumet said all the principles except for, Peter Finch were the first choice. Everybody because this script was already when it was making the rounds, people were we already had a huge buzz. And they were all first choices. So he said, so the shooting the shoot was very easy, believe it or not. I mean, when we're talking about miss Faye Dunaway, we know we know what a pill Faye Dunaway can be. I mean, when Bette Davis calls you out and says you're the one actor she wouldn't work with again, you are in trouble. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
But, yeah, according and the only reason that Finch wasn't the first choice was because of his Australian accent. And, Chayefsky wanted Finch, but, Lumet was not sure. And so I think that so so Finch did an incredible thing. He asked for, some tapes of of John Chancellor and Walter Cronkite doing the news, and then he sent the producers. He sent Lumet and Chayefsky a tape of him doing the news, and Lumet's like sold. Done. Yeah. Perfect.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yep. And he is perfect. He's he's so perfect at our. So perfect. What, do we want and how about the, the supporting cast too? I mean, can we you know, we need to talk about it. We said it before. Beatrice Straight.

Tony Maietta:
1, best supporting actress for a performance that lasted 5 minutes and 2 seconds.

Brad Shreve:
It's astounding. I don't know if she deserved best supporting actress because it is so small, and I don't know who she was up again against. But that 5 minutes and 2 seconds was awesome.

Tony Maietta:
Oh my god. Absolutely.

Brad Shreve:
Put so much so much energy and so much emotion in it. You could feel her pain. My god.

Tony Maietta:
Well, the thing is is that Ned Beatty who had about 6 minutes of screen time, was nominated for best supporting actor. So, I mean, this is incredible. This is but here's the reason why I think she did deserve it. And I I think that because it's so well written. You don't need more time. The script of of of network, obviously, is kinda mythic. We've had a lot of mythic scripts this season, and and we're doing pretty good for our furries. And we had Chinatown.

Tony Maietta:
We had the sting, and now we have network. And you have these scripts which are mythic in Hollywood history. And the reason that she could win an Oscar with only 5 minutes and 2 seconds is because the script is so brilliant. She's she has so much to act in it, and she's she get you get everything from her in those 5 minutes and 2 seconds.

Brad Shreve:
5 minutes. That's it. And she's one of the few characters that wasn't a caricature. She wasn't a cartoon. I watched Ned Beatty, and my mouth hung open. I'm like, this guy is a cartoon, and he's doing it so brilliantly. This is the first time I ever noticed. Oh, absolutely.

Brad Shreve:
Because of these actors. I mean, this this movie is ludicrous, just ludicrous. Even though there's way too much truth in it, it's ludicrous. Dunaway's character, oh my god, so over the top, but she is brilliant and you believe this cartoon. And that's probably a bad choice of word. But, no, if you made a cartoon, these are the she is the mustache twirling bad guy with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and she does it. There's no depth to this woman whatsoever. In fact, Lumet said to Dunaway, he said, I know the first thing you're going to ask me is where's her vulnerability? Mhmm.

Brad Shreve:
Don't ask it. Mhmm. She has none. If you try to sneak it in, I'll get rid of it on the editing floor.

Tony Maietta:
I love that. I love that. Is

Tony Maietta:
that true?

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah. Well, the reason that Lumet wanted Dunaway because is because he saw an actress who didn't have that overwhelming need to be loved. And that's Diana. Diana does not Diana doesn't even understand what love is. And, yeah, I love that thing about, like, cut it out if you don't do that. But Dunaway, you know, Dunaway said that everybody advised her not to do this. She they'd not do this because she's a soulless character. Now where were these same people 5 years ago when she was considering playing Joan Crawford? I'd like to know that.

Tony Maietta:
But Dunaway also said that she couldn't not do it. And here's the thing about Diana is is that there's nothing phony about her. She tells you upfront who she is. So, yeah, she is soulless, and she she admits she's she's like almost like you saying I'm a whore and I know it. So that's the way it is. Everything with Diana is television. She is a television baby as William Holden says. You know, she was educated by Bugs Bunny.

Tony Maietta:
And the brilliant thing about Donaway's performance, in my opinion, if we're not getting too far ahead of ourselves, is how committed she is to the purity of that character, to the purity of the soullessness of this character. She she said Denali said that her challenge was trying to find to give hints. None of her vulnerability, she agreed, but give hints of what this kind of life is costing Diana, what this is costing her character to to infuse the character with that sense of what she's what this whole thing is costing. And I think in that last scene, with William Holden, which we can talk about more when we get into it, that's beautifully illuminated.

Brad Shreve:
And to me, the most tragic character but I think people would think of Howard Beale, which is played brilliantly by Peter Finch, may think of him as a tragic character. It's really William Holden. She is you know, like you said, she knows who she is, and she makes no apologies. Mhmm. She's not. Other people are just so depraved in this film like her, and she is able to manipulate them all because it's all about money and and the other money and power, etcetera. But William Holden has no direction. He's like a college student that comes out and says, okay, what am I gonna do with my life? And his character changes so much through this from deep concern for his friend in the beginning, and we we are kinda getting a hold of ahead of ourselves, but Right.

Brad Shreve:
From deep concern for his friend to the end where he's just whatever. He just Well,

Tony Maietta:
I don't know. You know? I don't think he's I don't think he's drifted. I think he's gotten he's old. You know? I mean, he's she even says, you know, you're middle a I don't wanna deal with your middle age madness. He's his life, he's seeing the world change before him. William Holden before I'm gonna get too much into it too because I like getting the production history, but William Holden is us in this film. We are the people. I think Lumack called him the maypole.

Tony Maietta:
He said, Holden's the maypole that all these other characters are revolving around. And I look at it as as we talked in about the Wizard of Oz and as we talked about screwball comedy, you need someone the audience needs somebody to identify with when they're surrounded by crazy characters so they can have that experience. And William Holden is us. We're looking at this as William Holden is saying, what the hell is going on here? This is this is this is lunacy, yet he's powerless to stop it. And, boy, if that ain't now, I don't know when it would be.

Brad Shreve:
That's who the public is as well in this film. Yeah. They're mad as hell, and they're not gonna take it anymore, which I told Tony we are not starting out this conversation with that tagline, but it's it's so exactly Howard Beale touches their buttons. They feel hopeless. They feel helpless. They're angry. That's why we're in the situation where we're in. People were not they have this orange man who's spewing garbage that they want to spew.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
I

Brad Shreve:
think that's what all of this is about.

Tony Maietta:
You know, it's very

Brad Shreve:
it's Somebody got up there, an idiot, but he's saying how they feel.

Tony Maietta:
Frighting frighteningly prescient, this film, for what we're dealing with today. But, you know, have you ever seen any of, Paddy Chayefsky's other films? Have you ever seen The Hospital, or have you ever seen Marty? His big his first big hit with Ernest Borgnine?

Brad Shreve:
I have seen Marty. It was ages ago.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. I'm trying

Tony Maietta:
to think of his other films. I know I have seen some or at least one. What what are the others? Altered States.

Tony Maietta:
I'm sorry? Altered States, The Catered Affair, The Americanization of Emily, which was which, was one of my favorite Julie Andrews and James Gardner, both of their favorite films. Wonderful early Julie Andrews film.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. I've seen altered states, and, I because it was very memorable. I loved it when I was younger. I don't think I would love it today. Mhmm. But that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head.

Tony Maietta:
He's really you know, it's he's so interesting. Both he and Lumet started in television. That's why this is so perfect for them. This is a movie about television, and they both came from television. They were basically, they worked together in television. Lumet was one of that the great you know, in the fifties, when television was still kind of in its infancy, there was a great period of live dramas. And so many of the actors who became big stars in the late fifties, early sixties, like Paul Newman, like James Dean, directors, like Lumet, like Alan Pakula started like Jack Lemmon actors, started in TV and cut their teeth on these great dramas. And one of those dramas that Paddy Chayefsky wrote for television was Marty, and it was the first one to be transferred to film in 1959 starring Ernest Borgnine, and it won best film.

Tony Maietta:
So Chayefsky was then on his way. So he knew television, and Lumet knew television. So that's why they're so perfectly positioned for this film. The origin of this of of how network came about. I'm sure you probably know a lot about this since this is your favorite film. So cut in anytime, like you said to me one time, about Grey Gardens, my favorite film. Cut in anytime you want to if if there's something you need to add to this. But I, my understanding is that this came about, because Chayefsky was believed that news was desensitizing viewers to violence and murder.

Tony Maietta:
And he asked his friend, John Chancellor, because the anchorman just seemed to be rattling off in entities on the on the news. So he asked his friend, John Chandler, if it was possible for an anchorman to go crazy on the air. And Chancellor rep replied, every day, which I think is a great reply. But apparently, in 1974, there was a local news anchor in Florida who committed suicide during a broadcast. So I think that was probably the first light bulb to go off in Chayefsky's head about you know, I have to somehow write about how how what is happening with with network news and just society in general that is becoming kind of a circus. Is that is that about right?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Exactly. You know, I don't think they ever said it had to do with that, report, but it seems to real not be true.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. I mean, I think so. It's a little I mean, it's kind of how could you ignore that? It's been and Howard Beale threatens to kill himself. That's the first sign of of his, in of his mental instability in network. So there was also, there was a this is also the time of of conglomerates, which we're very we're very used to now. But back in the days when there were just 3 networks, you know, they they were NBC, CBS, ABC. They weren't owned by General Electric. They weren't owned by Comcast.

Tony Maietta:
They were their own entities. And then there was a possibility of a corporation, one of these conglomerates taking over ABC, which made Patty Chayefsky think, okay. If a conglomerate took over a network, they would naturally look for the place with the most potential profit growth.

Brad Shreve:
Mhmm.

Tony Maietta:
And it was pretty much a rule in the new in the TV in TV that the news divisions, since they had been created in the late fifties, would lose money because they're a service. That's the news. They're not supposed to be profitable. Well, if one of these conglomerates took over, they would certainly bastardize that theory to make the news profitable. Other in other words, entertainment. Right? TV is showbiz as Diana says.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And it's even mentioned in this movie that news has always been a loser. Yeah. It's been a loss to the corporation.

Tony Maietta:
In Mitsubishi, I mean, it's it's it's it's crazy. It's crazy now. You know, there's now, like I don't wanna go into this damn entertainment business now. That's why we're a classic Hollywood podcast, because I don't wanna have to deal with now. I wanna think about then. So even in 1976. So I think Tchaikovsky, he and his friend Howard Godfried, who was a producer, he produced the hospital, Tchaikovsky's film right before this, which he won an Oscar for screenplay. They met and they decided they wanna develop the script, and they were working off spec.

Tony Maietta:
They did not have a contract to do this. They were just developing this. It took Chayefsky about a year, I think. Is that is that sound right to you, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
About a year Yes. To develop this script.

Brad Shreve:
And he spent a lot of time at the News Network paying attention to the news, interacting with some people. In fact, he ended up having to send an apology letter, I guess, of for lack of better word, to Walter Cronkite and Chancell because they felt like they were used. Oh, wow.

Tony Maietta:
Know where

Tony Maietta:
what direction he was gonna take this film.

Tony Maietta:
Wow. Well, yeah, I know that Chancellor was a good friend of his, and and he spent a lot of time with Chancellor getting getting you for research. You know what I mean? That's interesting.

Brad Shreve:
I don't think anybody expected to be this over top. And NBC News, none of the news organizations were happy about this film at all. NBC, especially, because that is where he did most of his research. Not that NBC was any better or worse than the other networks.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess that they originally sold the script to United Artists. And this is what I love this about, Patty Patty Chayefsky. Cindy Lemann tells a story that they were in a meeting with the vice president of business affairs at United Artists. And the first thing he said was now this is the vice president of business affairs. He said he had a problem with the Howard Beale character. And Chayefsky allegedly stood up and walked out of the room.

Tony Maietta:
He's like, I'm not taking character criticism from the vice president of business affairs. So you it ended up going to MGM, which actually United Artists distributed MGM's film. So they were back in again. So it was so MGM produced it. It was a somewhat of a low budget. It was not a huge budget, and it was shot almost entirely in New York. In fact, in a building that MGM owned in Midtown. I think it's 55th and 6th Avenue.

Tony Maietta:
Three empty floors of that building were used for all the sets except the television studios, which were shot in Canada because they couldn't find a television studio that had enough free time for them to use it in United States, so they went to Canada.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. I guess they used it for 2 weeks, which Right.

Tony Maietta:
I

Brad Shreve:
don't know. I guess they didn't give it over entirely because they had to do their news, but I'm like, that would be really hard to get. That would be hard. And Your news center for 2 weeks.

Tony Maietta:
And they know there were a couple other locations, but all in New York, once at the lanes. And the the, actually, the apartment that that William Holden and and his wife have, Max and his wife have in this film is in is at the athorpe, which is a very famous building in New York City, which is the basis of the building and only murders in the building is based on the authority. Yeah. Interesting. Right? It was one of those huge buildings with a court an inner courtyard. Well, just like Mhmm. In only murders in the building. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
And apparently, they used Albert Maisel's apartment. Isn't that interesting?

Brad Shreve:
Oh, that is interesting. Wow. So there's a connection from my favorite film, Diggur Shaffer.

Tony Maietta:
There is. Isn't that crazy? I didn't even know Maisel's lived in the anyway, because I knew we lived in the Dakota. But anyway,

Brad Shreve:
We have gone almost 30 minutes. I think it's time for you to give the premise of this film.

Tony Maietta:
Okay. Well, we kinda we kinda just did. I mean, I think everybody know. And so what we're talking about basically is, like, is this fictional network, UBS, is taken over by a conglomerate, and they look for the the opportunity for the the biggest profit and it's the news division. So what happens is is they take over the news division. William Holden plays Max Schumacher, who is the director of the news, who is the moral core of this film. And he's watching, you know, basically, the entertainment division takes over. First of all, they fire Peter Finch, who is Howard Beale, who is the anchorman, who's the lowest it's the lowest rate the lowest rated news show on TV.

Brad Shreve:
And he's an alcoholic.

Tony Maietta:
And he's an alcoholic. He's drinking scotch before his before he goes on the air. And he's a little mentally unstable, and he threatens to blow his brains out, 1 week from today. He says 1 week from this newscast, and, of course, everybody first of all, nobody pays any attention to it. Nobody notices it. That's brilliant. Isn't that brilliant?

Brad Shreve:
They're all too busy. When do we get the commercial in? When are we gonna cut to this scene? They're also busy worried about doing what needs to be done that they aren't paying him the least bit of attention.

Tony Maietta:
No. None at all.

Brad Shreve:
I think 2 people did. 1 person in the broadcast booth who didn't know he's sitting there trying to say something, and then that woman runs it. Everybody else is he's sitting there talking about he's gonna kill himself on the air, and nobody's paying the least bit

Tony Maietta:
of money. Pay any attention to him. Any attention to him. And, of course, finally, it they get the woman who is running the control booth who was actually a real was not an actress. She was a civilian, the Lumet cast. Ah. Says Howard just threatened to kill himself. Howard just threatened to kill himself.

Tony Maietta:
So that's how it begins. And it that eventually devolves in the fact that they realize, as Howard slowly loses his mind, he becomes a media sensation. And the entertainment division, which is which is run by Faye Dunaway's character, Diana Christensen, takes over the news. At the same time, she's having an affair with William Holden, who was a former news director who's been canned. So there's that. Because of her. Because of her. But she warned him.

Tony Maietta:
She threatened him. I'm gonna take over your show, so either work with me or you work that's That's what you gotta admire about Diana. She's totally honest about this stuff. You know, you either work with me, I'm gonna take it over. So, you know, you're but he can't resist her. His his life he's got to the point in his life, clearly a late midlife crisis he's having, where he gives up his marriage, his wife, Beatrice Straight. He leaves his wife for this nut job, Diana Christiansen, who can only respond to people in terms of demographics, in terms of TV verbiage. I mean, it's it's so funny.

Tony Maietta:
It's so out there. But these actors are so committed to their realities that it works. It's like farce. It's it is a well, satire, farce, same family, same family.

Brad Shreve:
And I think the affair is the weakest part of this movie. I mean, why would Max Schumacher, William Holden, who is the moral compass of this film, what does he see in her? I mean, like you said, it's a midlife crisis, but they didn't have enough time in this film to dig deeper in that than just an affair. I want to know what deeper was his motivation to go this far. Well You kind of under I mean, you knew it, but I could see some people saying, no. He would never be with her.

Tony Maietta:
Well, she's a beautiful woman, first

Tony Maietta:
of all. On.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, you know, come on. She's Faye Dunaway in her prime, she's beautiful. She's exciting. She's, yes, she's a nut job, but there's a certain vitality with that nut with that with that craziness. You know, there's a certain seduction in that. I mean, when somebody like that when you meet somebody like that who's not only physically attractive, but has an intensity, it's it's seductive. It's very, very charming. So if if you're at a point in your life where you're wondering, you know, I'm getting older, I can see doesn't even say I can see the end of my the end of my life is becoming more and more a reality to me in the very last scene with her.

Tony Maietta:
You know, that's a reality. As you get older and the end of your life becomes more and more of a reality and you begin to wonder, what did I do with my life? You know, you start to go through a a late midlife crisis.

Brad Shreve:
Throughout the film, they refer to their actions as scenes in the movie. Like, Like, this is what's gonna happen to us next.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Think about how many middle aged men go out and buy red Camaros and dump their wives and their families. What this is not doesn't this doesn't make sense to you? It's totally it's textbook almost why he responds to Diana Christensen. Right?

Tony Maietta:
To me, it's textbook why he would want to pursue something.

Tony Maietta:
Okay.

Brad Shreve:
Again, it stretches a little bit that it's her. And I'm gonna read this.

Brad Shreve:
This is Diana Christian. She says this. Mhmm. NBC is offering 2.2 and a half mil per package of 5 James Bond movies, and I think I'm gonna steal them for 3.5 for their 3rd run. Okay? Not an earthshading shattering statement. Just shows that she's a businesswoman. She says this while they're making love.

Tony Maietta:
I was gonna say, well, that entire love scene between them is all her talking and all her talking TV. In fact, you know, that gets her off.

Brad Shreve:
And she's talking about ratings when has an orgasm.

Tony Maietta:
That's it. Well, that's what gets her off.

Brad Shreve:
She's talking about ratings, and she has an orgasm and collapses on him. Again, that's part of the hysterical, but there's nothing in it for him.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
Wanting love. He he wants attention, and she's not giving him any of that.

Tony Maietta:
He well, that's why eventually it doesn't work out. That's why they're only together for a few months. And Beatrice Straight says to him, you're in for a terrible, terrible time. And he goes, I know. But he's obsessed with her. You know?

Brad Shreve:
Well, they've been living together the end of the film, they've been living together for 6 months. And I could see it happening for because he thinks it's gonna last a few weeks. So I I don't wanna be critical of this film because I this is like a to me, this is small fry compared to the rest of the film.

Tony Maietta:
You're bringing up questions that other people might bring up. Like, really? You're gonna stay with this nut job for 6 months? I mean, okay. I can kinda see a couple weeks. I can see, you know, roll in the hay with her, but you're gonna give up your wife and your family and your fabulous apartment on the upper west side to to live in some little apartment, you know, off Madison with this nut job? Well, but that's a but when you feel like you have no when you feel like your life is winding down, you know, as you're getting older and you're losing your vitality, you latch on to somebody with so much vitality and so much of their life ahead of them. You know, it's the definition of a late midlife crisis, basically. It's just how he deals with it. He's obsessed with her. People do crazy things when they're obsessed.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. They do. Yes. They do. And regarding her apartment, you know, my first thought was, well, that's a pretty small apartment given her job. But then I saw that did have a stairs going upstairs, but her apartment was not it was just a it was a mess. Mhmm.

Tony Maietta:
It was

Brad Shreve:
just a mess. It was not and it really showed who she was. She was it it was about business. She didn't care about her personal life.

Tony Maietta:
I'm surprised she unpacked. Yeah. You know what I mean? This is the this is the kind of woman who would still live out of boxes, I think, after a year. Exactly. Because that's not her life. Her life is her job. Her job is her life. TV is her life.

Brad Shreve:
Tony, you and I get excited when we get messages and emails and texts from listeners that tell us how much they enjoy the show.

Tony Maietta:
We do.

Brad Shreve:
But, you know, I think we should push it a little bit and ask them to go a little bit further. Oh, challenge. If you enjoy this show, let others know. Five stars are great. Whatever you wanna give, except 1 star. If if you have 1 star, say, you know, this show is not for me and move on.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. You don't need to don't give us 1 star. Be kind just say, no. Not for me. Just skip it. Or tell your friends. That's the best way too. Right? Tell your friends, hey, I have this great fun podcast with these 2 kooky guys who talk about movies and TV.

Tony Maietta:
We run the gamut. We have everything.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. We're all over the place.

Tony Maietta:
We're all over the place is a better way to put it.

Brad Shreve:
But in a good way. So do it right now before you forget.

Tony Maietta:
I wanna talk a little bit about the casting process and the cast, because this cast is what this cast is what makes this movie so incredible. In fact, it is it holds the record. I think the there are 3 films. First of all, there were 10 Oscar nominations for this film, and every single acting category had an Oscar. You had best actor, best actress, best supporting actor, best supporting actress. Peter Finch, Faye Dunaway, Beatrice Straight, Ned Beatty. That has only happened 2 other times so so far. Streetcar Named Desire and Everything Everywhere All at Once in 2022.

Tony Maietta:
So I wanna talk about this incredible cast. And, by the way, William Holden was also nominated for best actor. So you had 2 actors, and you had, the rest of the cast. And I think what's amazing about this cast is is that and and Lumet Lumet said this, because Lumet was an actor. Lumet came from a family of actors. So Lumet knew actors, and he needed actors who could do comedy. But when I say that, it's kind of like we said in Tootsie. You know, you good comedy is truth.

Tony Maietta:
You can't play comedy like I'm playing a comedy. You have to play it as if it were Madea, as if it were life and death, as if it were deadly serious, and then it works, especially in a film like this, which is so outrageous.

Brad Shreve:
Well, a very extreme over the top, example of this is Airplane. Right. They purposely only hired dramatic actors. Well, there's a few comedic actors, but for the most part, they hired a dramatic actors because they said that's how it's gonna work.

Tony Maietta:
That's true of all good comedy. Yeah. You have you don't you you play comedy as if it were life and death. That truth is what makes comedy funny. Your your characters are

Brad Shreve:
Nobody wants to watch somebody trying to be funny

Tony Maietta:
This isn't funny to these characters. This is their life and death. It's funny to us because they're so invested in the situation. And I think we said before, we talked a little bit about, you know, Peter Finch and, about how he convinced them that he would be the perfect Howard Beale, which I think he is. I mean, he was an incredibly accomplished theater actor. You know? He's Shakespearean. He's Australian. So Howard Buell has to have a core of reality.

Tony Maietta:
He cannot be completely nuts from the beginning. And I think that's what a brilliant thing that Finch does is he slowly starts to lose his mind. It's not all of a sudden all at once. He's still you know, even after he threatens to shoot himself on the air, he's still hanging out with the people in the newsroom, and he's still laughing, and he still seems very normal. He just has these glimpses Mhmm. Until he has his final breakdown. Yeah. So I think that's I think it's brilliant.

Tony Maietta:
I think it's perfectly you know, unfortunately, Peter Finch had a heart attack, when he was doing when he and Sydney Lumet were doing the rounds of publicity for this film. And he had heart attack in the lobby of the Beverly Hills Hotel and died. And he was the first act

Brad Shreve:
Died in Lumet's arms.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Right in Lumet's arms. So he was he was the first actor to be awarded best actor posthumously, which is which is is very sad because it is so well deserved as was William Holden's. You know? Holden, you know, one of the greatest actors of the golden age, probably the biggest romantic leading man of the fifties. I mean, Sunset Boulevard, Sabrina, Southlake 17. I mean, he was iconic. And by the time of network, you know, by this point in his career, he was also a committed alcoholic. You know? And you could see it on his face.

Tony Maietta:
And that was one of the things that Lumet loved about why he wanted Holden was because he could see the sadness Mhmm. In Holden. You could see the vestiges of a once incredibly attractive man, but you could also see the sadness. And he said that's he needed an actor who it would be believable that this young, charismatic Diana Christiansen would be attracted to, and you can see that in Holden. You know? I mean, I'm gonna I understand what you're saying about why would he stay with her, but can you see where the initial attraction would be?

Brad Shreve:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I definitely see it there. I I just think it went on longer than realistic, but, again, this this movie is not about realism. So it doesn't bother me enough to to make me dislike this film anyway. I'm just like, if I have to find a flaw, that's

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, I agree with you. But you know what? What's interesting is is that Holden now Lumet was from the theater, Jasky's from the theater. Holden hadn't done a play since the Pasadena Playhouse in the thirties, and Lumet rehearsed. That was what was strange and wonderful about Sidney Lumet was he had 2 weeks of rehearsal. And Holden had not rehearsed since 40 years before at the Pasadena Playhouse. So Holden was, like, thrown back. He had never really rehearsed in 40 years and never on a film.

Tony Maietta:
But what was so great about this was that and why this because they had such a low budget, they were able to go in right away when they filmed it and filmed it because they worked out everything in the rehearsals. He said that Holden was fearless in these scenes, and I got such a sense of that. You know, I've watched this film many times. And this last time I watched it, that was what I came away with was such incredible respect for Holden and his performance. It it for a man who'd been a movie star for over 40 years when he made this, and had never done anything quite like this, He is brilliant. He's brilliant in this film.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Talk about Oscar nominations. I'm sitting here thinking, okay. You had Peter Finch up against William Holden and some others, and they had to choose between the 2. And I think a lot of people said right away, Peter Finch, but, yeah, I don't think it's that easy.

Tony Maietta:
No. I don't.

Tony Maietta:
They well, you know, and

Tony Maietta:
there's some argument too that Peter Finch really should have been supporting actor because Holden is really the leading man in that work. It's not Peter Finch. You know? And Peter Finch is his character is so galvanizing. And, yes, okay, you can kind of justify it being best actor. But, really, if you look at screen time and you look at the story, Howard Beale comes in and out. You know what I mean? He's not the main thrust. No. It's it's it's William Holden because William Holden is us.

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. And best supporting actor, I think we mentioned it, but Ned Beatty who actually has a pretty minor role in this film, but my god, he has a speech that's just incredible. He was nominated for best supporting actor. The winner was Jason Robards. And I gotta say, I love Jason Robards. I'm glad he got an I'm glad he won. But my problem with Jason Robards, I like him a lot, but he always plays Jason.

Tony Maietta:
Robards. He was Jason Robards playing Ben brant Brantley of the Washington Post for all the president's men, which is incredible film too. I mean, what a year for movies. And Rocky, which won, by the way. But, anyway, we're not gonna know about that right now.

Tony Maietta:
Boy, that But

Tony Maietta:
you know did you know the story of Ned Beatty? Do you know the story of Ned Beatty's casting?

Brad Shreve:
No. That I don't. Did you

Tony Maietta:
know he was not the original actor for this role? No.

Brad Shreve:
I didn't know that. I you know, I would not have chosen Ned Beatty for this role. Exactly. I was doing the casting, but I would have been an idiot.

Tony Maietta:
So Ned Beatty Ned Beatty plays Arthur Jensen, who is the head of the corporation which has purchased UBS. And he's got, what, a 6 minute scene, which is basically a 6 minute monologue soliloquy, which is brilliant at the at the end of this long, long table in the boardroom of his of his company. And he was, he was not the first choice. It was originally cast with the actor Roberts Blossom. Now you can be forgiven for not knowing who Roberts Blossom is, but I'll tell you exactly who he is, and you'll be like, oh, him. He plays the old scary man in Home Alone. Remember that? Oh, yes.

Tony Maietta:
You know

Tony Maietta:
what I'm talking about? Yeah. So he wasn't according to Lumet, he just wasn't getting it. So he was fired. And it was, they apparently, Patty Chayefsky and Sydney Lumet were out drinking with Robert Altman. I would love to have been at that bar with those 3. God. Altman, Lumet, and Chayefsky. And it was Altman who suggested Ned Beatty.

Tony Maietta:
And Ned Beatty had to learn this role in 48 hours. It's a it's a huge monologue full of all kinds of very complex dialogue, and he learned it in 48 hours. And he's brilliant in it.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. He really is.

Tony Maietta:
He's he's absolutely brilliant. And he's not I agree with you. He's he wouldn't be your first idea No. For this part. You know? I mean, because, you know, he just doesn't have that, but he's he's brilliant. And I think that's probably what what was so appealing about him. Was he an unexpected character choice, I think.

Tony Maietta:
I definitely think so.

Brad Shreve:
An unexpected character. And let

Brad Shreve:
me do a quick rundown of the characters in this film because it was really hard to keep up with what everybody's job was. So just quickly Yeah. Howard Beale, which was played by Finch, is the network news anchor for the UBS Evening News. Max Schumacher, which is played by William Holden. He was the news division president. Then we had Dunaway, who played Diane Christensen, the programming chief. And then we had Frank Hackett. He is the executive senior vice president, who becomes president when the president dies, and that's played by, Duvall, Robert Duvall.

Tony Maietta:
Right. Another unlikely choice. Yes. Robert Duvall. Very unlikely.

Brad Shreve:
Then we have and I'm going through all this because I it's it's a lot, and that's why I'm trying to get across here. Then we have Arthur Arthur Jensen who's played by Beatty. He is the CCA chairman that is the Communications Corp of America, the corporation that owns the network. Then we have Nelson Haney who's played by Wilson Addy. He's a senior executive. And we also have Edward George Ruddy. He is the president when it begins, and he eventually dies of a heart attack, which puts Robert Duvall in charge. And he is not a person in charge of this network except unless you wanna make some money.

Brad Shreve:
And the reason I list all that, the so the 2, Edward Ruddy to a degree is the president. He does have a little bit of power at the beginning, but he dies of the of the heart attack, and we get to all in the role. But also Nelson Haney, who's a senior executive at this network, who really he he he has nothing. He just rolled over. At first, he's very angry at what's happening. He speaks his mind, and Duvall says, you tomorrow, you can give me your resignation if you want, to the point where at the end, I'm gonna skip way ahead, where they're talking about killing Howard Bill Bill. He expresses

Tony Maietta:
Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert.

Tony Maietta:
He expresses his disapproval, but it isn't with any real feeling. He's given up at that point. Did you feel that?

Tony Maietta:
Oh, god. Yeah. Speaking of this cast, you missed somebody. And I'm gonna ask you a question since you're such a fan of this, since this is your number one movie. I wanna ask you, the Patty Hearst type character. Because in in addition to Howard Beale becoming, you know, this this, media sensation, Diana Christensen also has an idea about a show called the Mao Tse Tung Hour. Tell listener what the Mao Tse Tung Hour is, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
This part of the movie would must have seemed absolutely ridiculous in the mid seventies. And today, we're like, yeah. That would happen. We have the ecumenical liberation army who really is, fitting in for what was the other group?

Tony Maietta:
The Sibenese Liberation Army, the SLA.

Brad Shreve:
And they mention the Sibenese Liberation Army because somebody mentions the ecumenical and somebody goes, is that the one with Patty Hearst? And they're like, no. No. No. That's the other one. This is the ecumenical

Tony Maietta:
liberation another heiress who's been kidnapped.

Brad Shreve:
This is the heiress who was kidnapped and becomes part of the organization that helps him rob a bank, and it was played by Walter Cronkite's daughter

Tony Maietta:
I love that.

Brad Shreve:
Who was an actor for short time.

Tony Maietta:
That is so great. That's what I was gonna ask you if you knew who and I'm I'm sure you did. Yes. I see. You're such a fan of this movie. You're such a fan of this movie.

Brad Shreve:
That whole thing is hysterical.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Just hysterical.

Brad Shreve:
And Marlene Warfield, who plays the head of the communist organization, is so great in her role. Oh, she's great. She is hysterical, but she's very believable for who she is again.

Tony Maietta:
And Don't fuck with my distribution charges.

Brad Shreve:
She's head of this, communist organization is all concerned about making their money and getting the word out. I mean, it's just because first of all, when she agrees to do it, it's because Dunaway points out that they can get their word out. But by the end of the movie, it's all about the ratings and the dollars.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, well, yeah. So listener anyway, so Denaway has this ridiculous idea, not so ridiculous, this crazy idea of having the mouse a tongue hour, which is basically the adventures of this militant group on prime time television. So she approaches Laurene Hobbs, about doing this because she's part of the the ecumenical liberation army, about doing this. And she's looking at first, she's looking at her, like, are you crazy? Are you crazy? And then there's an incredible she goes, I gotta talk with the leader who is the great Ahmed Khan played by Arthur Berghat, which is this, you know, 7 foot tall African American, very, very imposing man. So he's eating a bucket of chicken, and he goes, what the fuck are you talking about? So later on in the movie, they're at their hideout. This is my favorite scene in the whole movie. They're they're at their hideout of the hideout of the ecumenical liberation army, and all of these

Brad Shreve:
It's a shack.

Tony Maietta:
Fancy limi limos are pulling up. We're not really limos, but Cadillacs and things they put Old house. Pardon me? It's a it's an abandoned house. Right. And they're sitting there, and they've got these, I don't think they're William Morris agents. Lumet said William Morris agents, but they didn't strike that to me. They were network executives. You have these network network executives sitting in a circle with the members of the ecumenical liberation army going over the terms of their contract, and they're all speaking as if they've been doing in in TV in TVEs and TV verbiage, which just flows right off their tongue.

Tony Maietta:
Like, they've been doing this their entire life. They're actually reading through a contract and arguing about it. And and but, Loreen Hobbs keeps shouting, don't fuck with my distribution charges. It's it's hysterically funny. It's a hysterically funny scene.

Brad Shreve:
I saw them as all attorneys, and I'm sure some of them were attorneys too. Because it's all Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
It was a mixture of attorneys and network executives and agents. Like, it's just you know, it's just it's the insanity of what TV business is now. I mean, come on. You can't escape it.

Brad Shreve:
It wouldn't it's not insane today. That's what's so funny and not funny.

Tony Maietta:
So eventually what happens is that Howard Beale's luster I mean, forget the news now. It's the Howard Beale hour. And it's total entertainment. You have that soothsayer. You have a gossip columnist. I mean, it's basically what we see now. You know? And I don't think we have a soothsayer on, on TV now, but on the news now, but it it it's not that far off. And and so Howard Beale is a media sensation, but his ratings start to drop.

Tony Maietta:
Drop so much to the point where he now becomes a liability even though he's a huge media sensation and they are William Holden's long gone. Okay? The the network is now being run by Robert Duvall and Faye Donald.

Brad Shreve:
He's almost like a totally separate storyline. He has this totally separate storyline that

Tony Maietta:
Well, yes. But

Brad Shreve:
he has no connection to the network at this point and really has no connection with Howard Beale anymore.

Tony Maietta:
So it's really interesting. So as this movie takes place and as these changes begin to happen in the news division, you know, one of the brilliant things about this film is the lighting. Because the film starts out with very naturalistic source lighting. And then by the end of the film, the final scene Lumet said was lit like a Ford commercial. And it is. It's it's you're it's totally unreal. You've gone on this whole journey of this totally unreal ride. But as I was saying, so Howard Beale has now become a liability.

Tony Maietta:
And they they don't they can't fire him because Ned Beatty, who's the chief chairman of the board, likes him too much.

Brad Shreve:
Let's talk about how big his show became because it became huge in the ratings. This is a news show, Chris. It's a ludicrous news show. He was number 4th in the ratings behind the $6,000,000 man, all in the family, and Phyllis.

Tony Maietta:
I love a Phyllis cut in there.

Brad Shreve:
So funny. So then we go back to what you were saying.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. So he's he's writing he's totally now he's tanking, But they can't get rid of him. They can't fire him. So in the calmest of calm manners, as if they're all sitting and they're all sitting in this meeting with very low lighting, trying to figure out what the hell to do about Howard Beale. And as if they were ordering Chinese food, they say we're gonna have to kill him. So they arrange an on air assassination of Howard Beale on the air by the Ecumenical Liberation Army. And that is how the film ends, with Howard Beale being assassinated on live TV and the camera pulling up on his corpse. And what is the what is the great last line of this movie, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
This was the story of Howard Beale, the first known instance of a man who was killed because he had lousy ratings.

Tony Maietta:
The first known instance.

Brad Shreve:
When he is shot and he collapsed to the floor, the cameras move forward and point down in his face.

Tony Maietta:
It's it's so unreal. It's so brilliant. It it's, you know, it's disturbing. I have, you know, I had mixed I had mixed feelings about this film. I know it's your favorite film. It would not be a film I would just put on to Volley as Sunday afternoon. No.

Brad Shreve:
Not me either.

Tony Maietta:
I think it's it's brilliant. I I so appreciate it. It's hard for me to say I love this movie just because I feel it's so frightening and because of what's going on in the world today. But I certainly appreciate it, and I certainly respect it just for the brilliance of the writing and the acting. The acting alone. Dunaway absolutely deserved that Oscar. She is brilliant in this film. She is fearless as this character, and that's what you get little shadings of mommy dearest.

Tony Maietta:
I think this might be when I know it is. I don't it's not even there's no might about it. This is definitely the tipping point for Faye Dunaway, Because she did the Eyes of Laura Mars after this, which is a which I actually like. It's a good movie.

Brad Shreve:
I like the premise.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. It wasn't a huge hit, but Tommy Lee Jones is adorable in it even though he ends up being the killer. Oops. Spoiler alert. And then, of course, she went way over the edge with mommy dearest. And god love her, she's been trying to pull herself back ever since. You know? But you really see we've we've had a lot of fade down away this season. You know? Yes.

Tony Maietta:
We see the progression from Chinatown to this character, and it's it's genius genius performance.

Brad Shreve:
Her character Diane Christian is so ridiculous. Just like I was saying that she's talking about the ratings while they're they're having sex. Anybody else that played this role, I can't imagine who else would have done it and made it believable.

Tony Maietta:
No. You could

Brad Shreve:
Only when you stop and you think about what she's saying, you're like, that's nuts. But it's funny, but it's believable. You believe who she is.

Tony Maietta:
Well, again, I can't oh, so you gotta think of the who are the actresses at this time? Jane Fonda? Always. You guys have Jane Fonda? Ellen Burstyn? Were the big actresses at the time. Louise Fletcher had just won an Oscar, but I don't think Louise Fletcher would have had the sexuality. You have to think of women who, again, who are beautiful and who are who have this kind of as Lumet said, an actress who didn't need to be loved. And if there's any actress that fits to a t, it's Faye Dunaway. She did not care. It was much more important for her to get this character right. And, boy, she deserved that Oscar.

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Tony Maietta:
So let's talk a little about

Tony Maietta:
you wanna you wanna talk about how network performed once it was released?

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. It did very well, but not nearly as well as I think it should have done. You already covered the Oscar. We don't have to go there.

Tony Maietta:
Patty Chayefsky also won for best original screenplay. Important to point that out. So it got 4 Oscars.

Brad Shreve:
So the budget on this film was 3,800,000. As you said, it was a very small budget. They didn't do any sets. Everything was filmed on location, which usually is kind of expensive, but they were mainly offices.

Tony Maietta:
Well, crap. What was in those 3 empty floors of that MGM office building in mid midtown?

Brad Shreve:
$3,800,000. It earned near $24,000,000. The critics rave about this. Roger Ebert had some negative things to say, but I have issues with Robert Ebert. But he also has some really bad things to say. Ron Tomatoes, the critics give it 91%. The audiences give it 93%. Other nominations that year, Rocky was one of them.

Brad Shreve:
It won number 1. Boy, I have issues with that.

Tony Maietta:
So did Sidney Lumet, by the way.

Brad Shreve:
I I can only imagine. We had All the President's Men inbound Glory, the top grossing films of this year. This one really gets the hair on the back of my neck. Stand up. Number 1 was Rocky. Number 2 was the I hate to say it, the 1976 version of A Star is Born.

Tony Maietta:
Well, we knew that was coming.

Brad Shreve:
King Kong, the 1930s movie is a classic. That seventies film was awful. Silver Streak Silver Streak, I loved it in the seventies. It was a funny movie to me. I watched it over and over again. I don't know if I would like it today. It was funny, not a great film.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
All the President's Men, and then we network was number 19 that year. And to give you a scope, other big films that year were the bad news bears. I because a lot of people remember that when I wanna bring it up. Taxi driver, The Omen, Marathon Man, Murdered by Death, silent movie. Probably, it was a good movie. There's some funny scenes, but probably to me, it's, Mel Brooks is probably one of his weakest films. And then Carrie. Those are the big moves.

Brad Shreve:
So we had Taxi Driver. We had Marathon Man. We had Murder by Death. Great. These other films in the top 5, and they're way down the list drives me crazy. Well But it was a big year for films. That's for sure.

Tony Maietta:
It was a big year for films. It was a big year for films. And, you know, I think you have to put it into context about, okay. Yeah. That's great. But what is the legacy of that film? I mean, you know, you know, I don't put a lot of stock in AFI, and I think you don't either. But this film is not even in the top 10.

Brad Shreve:
Or top 20 or top 30 or 40.

Tony Maietta:
It's what is it? 40

Tony Maietta:
No. It's number 64, the newest one.

Tony Maietta:
It's 64. Yes. So, yeah, why do we even bring up AFI? Because that's bullshit.

Brad Shreve:
I know. It's Well, here's here's the thing with AFI. Because the number 1 is so this became you and I both said Casablanca is in there. Wonderful It's A Wonderful Life is in there. Doctor Strangelove is in there. Jaws is in there. All way ahead of this film. Now

Tony Maietta:
It's amazing.

Brad Shreve:
The one thing AFI does say, it's not necessarily based on a great film, but its impact on society. You can't argue that Jaws had an impact on society, good or bad. Right. It's A Wonderful Life. It was a dead movie in the beginning, but it became Christmas fair every year. Right. Citizen Kane, doctor Strangelove, I don't wanna talk about that. Casablanca, nice movie.

Brad Shreve:
We've talked to discussed it. We both think it's overrated. The fact that these movie and a whole bunch of others that are really good though are ahead of this film, number 64, AFI just they they have no credibility.

Tony Maietta:
Well and I think you the thing that that that about this film in comparison with those other films is the legacy of this film.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
This this film is so frighteningly prescient to what we're dealing with now that how can you not look at it as anything but a work of genius on every front? And I think that's the true value of this film aside from the astounding performances, aside from the brilliantly complex writing, aside from the the the wonderful direction. I say wonderful all the time. I'm gonna stop saying it for season 2. The the the it's it's what it means to us today is where its value is. You know? The fact that it was so far ahead of its time and that it did this it and it it it gave us this lesson in such a satirical, funny, disturbing way is astounding to me. And I think that is the legacy of that of this film, and that's why this film was important. Yes. Other movies outperformed at the box office.

Tony Maietta:
Who cares? I mean, can you believe A Star is Born was the sec I mean, come on.

Brad Shreve:
It's the song that did it.

Tony Maietta:
Well, there's a lot of things that did it. Go listen to our star is born episode if you want our real feelings about the 76 of star is born, because there were no punches pulled for that. And we both love Barbara. So there you go. But I just yeah. I think that is the true importance of this film. The its legacy is so much more impactful than any of those other films.

Brad Shreve:
I agree 100%. I wanna go back to Aaron Sorkin. He was being interviewed. And earlier when I said that I felt this film well, let me just say it. He said this quote. You wish Chayefsky could come back to live long enough to write the Internet. And to me, he did. He doesn't need to come back for it.

Tony Maietta:
This is the Internet. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
This is everything. This is this is everything, and it's in a way, I'm I love the fact that we're capping the end of our first season with this film, and in a way but we're not. We're not, listener. We're this is the this is our season finale, but we will be back Christmas day for our special Christmas episode, which is my favorite Christmas movie. Now a lot of people may not consider it a Christmas movie, but I feel that it's probably the most one of the most joyous Christmas movies ever. I mean, we won't tell you what it is yet. We'll have to wait and see. But in the meantime, while we're on our little hiatus, please go back and dip into some of our one one of our 30 plus episodes we've done this year.

Tony Maietta:
We ran the gamut. We really were true to our little, tagline there, Brad. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
We did run the gamut. And, yeah, there's plenty of episodes to go back to. I many of you watched every one. I'm sure many of you have not.

Tony Maietta:
Who? Who hasn't? I want names. So yeah. So that's for now. I'm afraid we're gonna have to say it, Brad, but I don't wanna say it. So let's just, this one time, let's not say goodbye. Let's just say.

Tony Maietta:
No. I'm not gonna give it to you. Let's just say goodbye. Goodbye to later. That's all folks.